Front Brake Failure - Possibly ABS??

BlackDog

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2012 Tenere
Apx 16k miles

For about the last six months if the bike had been sitting for a while (2 or 3 weeks) the front brake lever would feel "locked" in the place - brake NOT applied - so locked "open". I couldn't easily pull it in and apply the front break. With some modest pressure it would "break" free and I could apply the brakes, although they would initially feel almost on/off - brake applied with full force or not at all. Working the brake lever a few times and everything would be fine. This only happened initially after sitting for extended periods and only about 3 or 4 times over the last six to nine months.

The other day I pulled up to the gym and went to park on the side walk out front (everyone does this) and jumped the curb with the bike like I normally do. I went to apply the brakes and the front lever was again "locked" in place and I couldn't apply the front brakes. Rear brake still applied. This time however no amount of force would beak the front brake lever free. I decided to see how much rear brake I had to see if I could limp home. Riding around the parking lot and slamming on the rear brake and all of a sudden the front brake lever broke free and I could again apply the front brake again.

At no time does the ABS warning light or any other warning light ever come on.

I rode to the yamaha dealer to have it serviced and see if they could tell me what was wrong. They were able to re-create the problem. I think the lever was just locked in place when they went to look at the bike. They flushed all the brake fluid, etc. and looked at everything and they can't 100% say what the problem is but they think it is the ABS module only because they have basically eliminated everything else. My understanding is that this is a VERY expensive repair. Its painful but I would absolutely shell out the money if I knew for certain that this was in fact the problem - my brakes are not something I want to compromise on. I just don't have that reassuring feeling that this is the problem or that replacing the ABS module will fix the issue. I did read through the sticky at the top of this forum and it did seem to indicate that faulty ABS systems are a problem on this bike.

Thoughts? Advice?
 

EricV

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I suppose it's possible that it's the ABS valve. Have you cycled the ABS in normal riding with any regularity? 16k miles on a 4 year old bike is very low milage, so it's been sitting a lot of it's life. That probably means the brake fluid wasn't changed every year like it should have been and the ABS didn't get cycled much, meaning the nasty contaminated brake fluid was sitting in the valve for extended periods.

OTOH, I've see this exact issue with too much fluid in the reservoir + high heat days. The fix was as simple as a flush and bleed of the system and normal fluid level.

The other item in the system that comes to mind is the proportioning valve. This dictates how much force goes to the rear brake when the front brake is applied, (linked brakes), and might impact the front brake if it's stuck, and break free when the rear is applied. If you applied the rear hard enough to engage ABS, then it's unknown if it was the ABS valve or the proportioning valve that may have been stuck, IF that was the issue at all.
 

Don in Lodi

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I'd lean more towards the master cylinder jamming up. The lever should move regardless of what the abs unit is doing, the fluid is compressible to some extent, a full seize is a mechanical issue. Pivot, piston, seal. They can be rebuilt. They can be taken apart and cleaned of sludge as well.
 

2daMax

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I recommend that you perform this ABS pump cycling:

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=22743.0

Since the bleed was performed at the front, perform the same for the rear as well. Then do the ABS pump cycling per the procedure. Then bleed another time to remove the remnants debris that is stucked in the abs valves.

My friend just had the same issue after not riding it for a few weeks and has never bled the brakes before. Cured once did the bleed and pump cycling.

If you are up for bleeding as a DIY, google "one man brake bleed" for videos. Just need a appropriate size hose and a soda bottle and brake fluid (DOT4).
 

2daMax

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Don in Lodi said:
I'd lean more towards the master cylinder jamming up. The lever should move regardless of what the abs unit is doing, the fluid is compressible to some extent, a full seize is a mechanical issue. Pivot, piston, seal. They can be rebuilt. They can be taken apart and cleaned of sludge as well.
My observation differs to what could be a Master cylinder jamming up. Case in point was my friend's S10. Rear brake lever can't depress down. No rear brakes at all. When trying to bleed the rear, no fluid came out. Tried cycling the ABS pump but it only starts for 2 seconds and shuts down, even after numerous times. This was as much I could do for him. So he went to a mechanic, and somehow after many hours of trying (I am not sure what he did), he managed to Cycle the ABS pump and bleed the brake fluids.

I thought it was the Rear brake cylinder got jammed but it wasn't. I hope to be able to visit that mechanic and ask him how did he get the brake to un-jam, when the same friend would come over again to visit to finish off the trapped air in the pump (400 kms from his home, and he was in a hurry to get home to attend a wedding the next day). This would be a key learning. The abs pump may have the valve stuck blocking the pressure of the fluid from the brake pedal to the rear brake cylinders.
 

ace50

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I'm curious how BlackDog's bike has been serviced. (6 years old and stored, unknown)
I bought a bike with similar problems attributed to poor servicing.
I have no sympathy for people who never service their bikes properly.....
 

Squibb

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Don in Lodi said:
I'd lean more towards the master cylinder jamming up. The lever should move regardless of what the abs unit is doing, the fluid is compressible to some extent, a full seize is a mechanical issue. Pivot, piston, seal. They can be rebuilt. They can be taken apart and cleaned of sludge as well.
+1
I have never suffered this on a bike though, only with a VW car some years back.
 

BlackDog

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Thanks for the input. Just to add a few things. I bought the bike a year ago from a dealer when it had about 9k miles. It was a trade-in so I don't know the service history.
 

ace50

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BlackDog said:
Thanks for the input. Just to add a few things. I bought the bike a year ago from a dealer when it had about 9k miles. It was a trade-in so I don't know the service history.
Typical motorcycle rider AND car driver. Fix it when it breaks.
Works for most people. ::008::
 

Dogdaze

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ace50 said:
Typical motorcycle rider AND car driver. Fix it when it breaks.
Works for most people. ::008::
Why would you fix it if it works as it should, of course you would fix it when broken, nothing during routine maintenance would pick up an issue like that would it?
There is not a prevention stage for this sort of stuff.
 

ace50

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Dogdaze said:
Why would you fix it if it works as it should, of course you would fix it when broken, nothing during routine maintenance would pick up an issue like that would it?
There is not a prevention stage for this sort of stuff.
You missed the WHOLE point!
 

2daMax

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Routine maintenance of a abs system usually won't cycle the abs pump to clear any debris that is could be stuck in the valves. Regular bleed won't clear it Don't think Blackdog would have avoided the issue if he has done a regular bleed unless he test out the abs system regularly over sandy areas.
 

iClint

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You can rule out ABS. the ABS system could be completely non functioning and your brakes will work perfectly fine with the exception of no anti-lock feature.

As for the Yamaha dealer suggesting ABS module replacement after only doing a flush that is the reason I do not use dealer workshops. the entire brake system should have been dismantled inspected and rebuilt (might as well rebuild anyway as the cost is minuscule if you are already dismantling to inspect everything).

My advice would be not to ride the bike until it is sorted. isn't going to be fun emergency stopping to find the front lever seized.
 

BlackDog

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I'll just add a couple more things since maybe this will be of use to someone else.

The tech has done more than just bleed the brakes, they have spent quite a bit of time over the last week trying everything they can to diagnose the issue because if they mis-diagnose the issue it is on them to eat the cost. They have explained a lot of what they have done to me in repeated calls over the last week. When they remove the line from the ABS module the brake lever works fine. As soon as they connect the line to the ABS module there is immediate back pressure and the brake lever cannot be activated. They have removed all the lines they can and blown them out, bled them, etc. Everything appears to point back to the ABS module as the culprit - like there is some debris jammed in there. I am not a brake/ABS expert (which is why I am having a certified bike mechanic work on it) but I do agree with another poster that if ABS system is malfunctioning it should only effect the anti-lock feature not the entire braking system. It seems like an incredibly poorly engineered design that an ABS failure would result in total loss of brakes. But again everything seems to lead back to the ABS module as the source of the problem.

In all honesty I immediately suspected the ABS system before I ever took it in. When I jumped the curb it felt like "the ABS kicked in" and then just didn't "release". I don't know how else to describe it. I didn't tell the service department that I suspected the ABS because I didn't want to bias their diagnosis. I only described the symptoms the best I could. The bike shop service manager and tech are still confering over this because like I said, if they replace this very costly part and it doesn't fix the issue, its on them to eat the cost. I'll post a follow up at some point, again so maybe this will be helpful to someone else.
 

Checkswrecks

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You might see how much Sallydog wants for his ABS unit:
http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=24620.0


We also have a few members who have route their brakes directly and removed the ABS unit altogether. That said, I nearly hit a deer a couple of rainy nights ago and am absolutely sure that the only reason I did not was that the ABS functioned on my bike.
 

DogOne

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BlackDog said:
if they replace this very costly part and it doesn't fix the issue, its on them to eat the cost.
I'm not sure where this idea came from that dealer shops eat costs for misdiagnoses. I've never seen that before.
Likely outcome is they just say it had more than one problem. That'll be $3,000.
 

BlackDog

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Just a follow up.

The Yamaha repair shop ended up replacing the ABS module and it fixed the problem. I feel like they did their due diligence to diagnose the problem. They had multiple techs look at it. They even hooked up the lines to effectively by-pass the ABS module. As soon as the ABS module was re-introduced into the braking system the problem immediately returned.

Like one other poster here stated I feel like that a failure in any part of the ABS system shouldn't result in complete brake failure (just the actual anti-lock component) but apparently that was the case here. I really think that some type of debris or something caused the ABS pump to "jam" or something. I have the old part but have not had the time to even looked to see if it is possible to tear into it to try and confirm what actually happened.
 

Nikolajsen

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Very strange:eek:
But really really good the malfunction part was found, (and good to know)
 

Basti

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I have exactly the same issue with my front brake freezing up. I have read a couple of threads but I have not seen what the final cause and remedy for the issue was?
Was there any feedback on what caused it and how it was fixed?
 
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