Flashing, does it really produce more power?

[Checkswrecks]

That is pretty much my reasoning too It is about rideabiliy really, I had heard people claiming 20bhp after a reflash but to me, you don’t get that kind of power out of a normally aspirated engine without doing a whole lot more expensive stuff to the internals.

Long ago there was a German who got something like 127 hp out of one of these engines, but it was rebuilt from top to bottom. New cams, seems to me new pistons, pipes, exhaust, etc. It today would be still massively short of a current KTM 1290 or other new bike.

As you're now aware the Flash remaps throttle response and can remove some restrictions.

 

[Longdog Cymru]

Long ago there was a German who got something like 127 hp out of one of these engines, but it was rebuilt from top to bottom. New cams, seems to me new pistons, pipes, exhaust, etc. It today would be still massively short of a current KTM 1290 or other new bike.

As you're now aware the Flash remaps throttle response and can remove some restrictions.

I have always been sceptical about the mythical extra 20bhp that flashing was said to produce. Personally, I never believed it and as I asked in my original post, did anyone have irrefutable evidence including dyno charts to prove this. Short answer is no-one has produced a dyno chart to show extra bhp. It was my gut feeling that, as you have correctly pointed out, flashing remaps throttle response and can remove some restrictions, so the seat-of-the-pants impression of “more power” is simply that, the riders impression of how the throttle response feels. One really beneficial thing that I think a re-flash can do, is fill in the dip in the power and torque curves that manufacturers have to dial in to comply with noise and pollution legislation and I think that this is probably the best thing about a good re-flash.

 

[ballisticexchris]

The most I heard of was 18 more HP at the rear wheel. Of course there is no way to verify it unless you actually know the tuner and watched the numbers. A good dyne tuner can get max HP at the cost of rideability or get near perfect stoichiometric AF ratio for better rideability at the cost of HP and torque.

RideApart dude did a nice writeup: https://www.rideapart.com/news/247143/adding-power-to-our-2014-yamaha-super-tenere-project/

I personally do not see the benefit of a flash tune or adding HP to a bike that already has an incredible amount of HP and torque for everyday street riding. I do not want to lose the sport mode engine braking, perfect fueling or already smooth acceleration that the Yamaha engineers developed.

The one little issue I had the first 5,000 miles or so was sometimes rpm dropping and stall when at idling for long periods. I was able to tune that out by opening my right air screw 3/4 of a turn and sync the throttle body's.

 

[PhilPhilippines]

One really beneficial thing that I think a re-flash can do, is fill in the dip in the power and torque curves that manufacturers have to dial in to comply with noise and pollution legislation and I think that this is probably the best thing about a good re-flash.

And at certain speed/rpm for fuel economy figures

 

[Longdog Cymru]

And at certain speed/rpm for fuel economy figures

Agreed, although I think the pollution check also means a leaner mixture = economy

 

[PhilPhilippines]

Agreed, although I think the pollution check also means a leaner mixture = economy

I was thinking that as I was posting... hahaha.
(fully committed and knowing I'm adding nothing new to the conversation at the same time...)

 

[twinrider]

I do not want to lose the sport mode engine braking, perfect fueling or already smooth acceleration that the Yamaha engineers

Yamaha tuned the bike to pass emissions requirements worldwide, not for optimal performance. You clearly have not ridden a flashed S10. If you're ever in Japan you can try mine...

 

[Sierra1]

. . . . I do not want to lose the sport mode engine braking, . . . .

Yamaha tuned the bike to pass emissions requirements worldwide, not for optimal performance. You clearly have not ridden a flashed S10. . . .

I absolutely love the engine, and how the throttle responds. I couldn't use any additional performance as it is. . . . she'll break the back tire loose in a heartbeat on pavement. I won't argue that some riders need/want a different throttle response, and that the "flash" satisfies that need/want. Some of us . . . . think she's perfect as is.

 

[Longdog Cymru]

Yamaha tuned the bike to pass emissions requirements worldwide, not for optimal performance. You clearly have not ridden a flashed S10. If you're ever in Japan you can try mine...

So you have before and after dyno charts for us to see? If you could post them, it would be a whole lot less expensive than an airline ticket!

 

[Xclimation]

I'm sure there is some slight horsepower gains if you have the catalytic converter out of your pipes, a different slip on, intake modified. But a lot of the gains come from usable power. Before the flash it was more difficult to use the power that was there. That's even with adjusting my wrist. After the flash you're more in tune with a bike as a rider. Trying to think of other ways to put this but another way to put it you're able to utilize better what the bike has...

 

[Onenoodles]

I have always been sceptical about the mythical extra 20bhp that flashing was said to produce. Personally, I never believed it and as I asked in my original post, did anyone have irrefutable evidence including dyno charts to prove this. Short answer is no-one has produced a dyno chart to show extra bhp. It was my gut feeling that, as you have correctly pointed out, flashing remaps throttle response and can remove some restrictions, so the seat-of-the-pants impression of “more power” is simply that, the riders impression of how the throttle response feels. One really beneficial thing that I think a re-flash can do, is fill in the dip in the power and torque curves that manufacturers have to dial in to comply with noise and pollution legislation and I think that this is probably the best thing about a good re-flash.

Pretty much spot on with that for me ... I have a full Arrow system and had the CJS Bristol magic and I don't notice any more power really but turned the bike from a pig at very low speed to a smooth one so worth every penny for me.

 

[Checkswrecks]

People are always a bit surprised when they turn the TCS all the way off and have the front wheel lift Without Mommy.

 

[PhilPhilippines]

People are always a bit surprised when they turn the TCS all the way off and have the front wheel lift Without Mommy.

Dunno why. 1200cc secured to a few bits of metal will often do that...

 

[Sierra1]

People are always a bit surprised when they turn the TCS all the way off and have the front wheel lift Without Mommy.

I was thankful that mine was still on. It's also how I know the "5k mile break-in" is not a myth, and that I have no power restrictions in first gear. I took off from a light in a particular hurry. Releasing the clutch, applying throttle, front wheel coming off of the ground, all in one smooth movement. The TCS instantly brought the wheel back to Earth, but wow. . . . didn't expect that.

 

[PhilPhilippines]

I was thankful that mine was still on. It's also how I know the "5k mile break-in" is not a myth, and that I have no power restrictions in first gear. I took off from a light in a particular hurry. Releasing the clutch, applying throttle, front wheel coming off of the ground, all in one smooth movement. The TCS instantly brought the wheel back to Earth, but wow. . . . didn't expect that.

Does the traction only turn off after the "5k mile break in" Sierra1? If so, that's a huge and unexpected change of vehicle dynamics. Or am I misunderstanding something (...so, in my case, a regular expected normal event )

 

[MattR]

People are always a bit surprised when they turn the TCS all the way off and have the front wheel lift Without Mommy.

So people are accidentally wheelieing without realising it? Doesn’t sound plausible to me. It takes a fair bit of effort to wheelie even on my zx14r with twice the bhp of the S10. To think people are doing it by accident is beyond me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sierra1]

1) There has been a reported limitation of power in gears 1,2, & 3. . . . there's not.
2) It was an accidental/unexpected wheel lift only because I didn't think she had the grunt to do it. I did on purpose launch as quick as I could as the light turned green. The TCS activated like it's supposed to, and cut power. By this time I was rolling, and was able to throttle on, and leave quickly.
3) It was with OE Battle Wings.
4) It was also then that I realized that the people bitching about needing more power weren't using what they had.
5) I have noticed a difference in performance somewhere in the vicinity of 5k miles, only after it was brought to my attention by other Forum members.
6) It's not impossible that the ECU has a small limitation on power output programmed in until after 5k miles; Dodge does it with the Demon, although I cant remember the miles that they use.
7) She's my favorite bike ever.

 

[PhilPhilippines]

So people are accidentally wheelieing without realising it? Doesn’t sound plausible to me. It takes a fair bit of effort to wheelie even on my zx14r with twice the bhp of the S10. To think people are doing it by accident is beyond me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am not that surprised to be honest. My background is in driver training and it is relatively uncommon to see an "experienced" driver operate the controls correctly and with much regard to mechanical sympathy. Hence the introduction of synchromesh etc.

1200ccs, slight inattention to inputs and I guess unicycling is on!

 

[PhilPhilippines]

6) It's not impossible that the ECU has a small limitation on power output programmed in until after 5k miles; Dodge does it with the Demon, although I cant remember the miles that they use.

Learn something new every day...

 

[patrickg450]

I went from Arm Pitt to Brad Pitt on entering Asia...

Especially in PI........they love their Americans