"Factory Fixes" on brand new ST ES

EricV

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I disagree. Triumph nailed TBW. Very smooth throttle response. Which was a true TBW. S10 is not a true TBW.
I'm not a Triumph rider, so can't comment on how that compares. I generally don't buy motorcycles that lack dealer networks. ;) I'll bite, why don't you feel the S10 is a true TBW? The cables that run to the throttle grip have no direct connection to the actual throttle plates, only to the servo that sends a signal to the ECU.
 

kmasa58

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Great input ... I will attempt to 'train' my wrist firt for a while & see how I can adjust. Not everytime, but I did manage to keep the throttle partially open at times which made the throttle reponse better. But, it's difficult to continue to ride in that manner...a slight bump, or bad body posture changes the angle of the wrist/input to throttle. On my previous bikes, I've played with Ivan's Products, various thottle tubes, PC & etc which worked, but greatly affected the fuel economy. I've had Triumph Tigers, BMW GS's & couple of Ducatis, all with TBW which weren't abrupt as my ST. The only other bike that I've ever owned with worse throttle action is none other than Yamaha FZ-1. I think Yamaha could improve their fuel programming, unless they're main objective is to meet the ever tightening environmental requriements.
 

EricV

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hobdayd made a very good suggestion that may help you. Remove the play from the throttle cable. It helps avoid jerkiness by making it easier to control.
 

Clawdog60

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I'm not a Triumph rider, so can't comment on how that compares. I generally don't buy motorcycles that lack dealer networks. ;) I'll bite, why don't you feel the S10 is a true TBW? The cables that run to the throttle grip have no direct connection to the actual throttle plates, only to the servo that sends a signal to the ECU.
TBW should be wire at grip-to Ecm to servo
I feel some translation is lost with cables
Was this for old school riders that have to a cable to fiddle with?
 

EricV

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More likely it's just a choice of where the wear points will be. Cables or wires. A traditional throttle tube is cheaper and less prone to failure. Wire at grip to ECU means you need some kind of device at the throttle tube to translate to a signal. That's A) more expensive, B) more complicated, C) more prone to failure, D) not as well protected from the elements, E) Not as well shielded from rider manipulation. I'm not surprised Yamaha chose to do it in a simpler method.

Regardless of where it is in the system, at some point someone has to write software to translate a signal variation into throttle plate movement.
 

EricV

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I would agree Yamahas system could use some improvement because nearly everyone complains about it.
I look at it more like this, Yamaha didn't dumb it down to carburetor levels, it's new tech, you have to adjust to it. I don't see the point in having throttle by wire only to program it to a soft feel that mimics older tech.

Most EFI bikes required some rider learning and adjustment from carburetor bikes. TBW is just another step that requires more rider adjustment and learning to more finely manage the throttle. It takes some more time than others, but it is learned over time.
 
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ballisticexchris

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I look at it more like this, Yamaha didn't dumb it down to carburetor levels, it's new tech, you have to adjust to it. I don't see the point in having throttle by wire only to program it to a soft feel that mimics older tech.

Most EFI bikes required some rider learning and adjustment from carburetor bikes. TBW is just another step that requires more rider adjustment and learning to more finely manage the throttle. It takes some more time than others, but it is learned over time.
Hmm, I'm not so sure about that Eric. I can jump from a 2T carbed to my Beta carbed to my FI Tenere with very little adjustment or "throttle control" issues. This Super Tenere is one of the most smoothest fueling machines I have ever swung a leg over. IMHO Yamaha engineers got it right. It might be because I use gear selection (at higher speeds) and clutch modulation (at slower speeds) on any bike to control the power delivery. I'm not all that good at it but it seems to help when jumping on and off different bikes.
 

Checkswrecks

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I would agree Yamahas system could use some improvement because nearly everyone complains about it.
I agree with Chris that Yam got it right, once the bike was broken in. The throttle control is a problem on one of these when they are new and are so lean that some stall.

I am with Eric in that this is a true TBW and nothing says that there must not be a mechanical device anywhere in a TBW system. I am absolutely sure that Yam did it the way they did because putting the pot at the grip would be more expensive because they already were making the pots. Yamaha and all the others will try to use what they have before adding a new part number to produce. Possibly also because they would add a potential point of failure.
 

White19

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Way too much engine brake for me. I just got my flash done and finished the Leo Vince pipe install. Tomorrow is the ride. I’ll report back.
 

VRODE

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I agree with EricV that the TBW system can be adjusted to. If I paid attention to my inputs and understood that wrist movement correlated to accel/decel of the bike, it made sense. But it took a bit more concentration and energy, and I'm an OF. After 20 yrs of carbureted bikes, I liked the idea of a flash that reduced that one-to-one feel and it makes it easier to ride (for me).
 
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RonH

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After riding nearly 40yrs on carbs, my take on fuel injection on this motorcycle is it works great for me way it comes delivered from the factory. GL1800 works great too. Carbs suck. Maybe partially because up here at 5500ft elevation they never worked right, then if you fooled with them, they would then not work right at sea level, and climb up to 14,000ft, either way they never work. I can't imagine ever riding another bike with carbs. I still have 7 of them, 7 sit forever. I hate carbs. Just saying, the fuel injection on this motorcycle works just fine in my opinion.
 

Sierra1

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When I first got the Tenere, and began riding it....first thought was: huh, this is different. It never crossed my mind to change the bike, it is what it is. The more I rode it, the less "twitchy" the throttle was. Muscle memory. Eric right about the bike needing the rider to adjust; adjusting requires that the bike gets ridden....not on the highway using cruise, but somewhere that requires clutching and gassing. Chris, you have enough different bikes, that you automatically adjust without even realizing it; your wrist is not set to just one throttle. That being said, the Tenere throttle is like no other that I've ridden. But, it has become my favorite. And I'm with Ron....you can keep your carbs.
 

Sierra1

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The only thing I don’t like on my 17 is the low rpm and shifting throttle response. It sucks.
Maybe something is broken, 'cuz my '17 runs like a scalded ass ape. From idle on up. I can release the clutch as I'm giving it gas, and the front wheel will lift. Not by dumping the clutch, pure throttle. And, if I'm just putting around, using the clutch is just an option. The throttle is so smooth, I just back off of the throttle, up shift, throttle back on. I DO always use the clutch for down shifting though.
 
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ballisticexchris

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Me as well Sierra. Mine idles right at factory spec around 1050rpm. I'm sad to admit having stalled it more than once accelerating from a stop. But that is 100% rider error on my part. I'm learning more and more clutch/throttle control as I put the miles on this bike.
 
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