Exhaust modification

moby466

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I have gone back and read some of the previous posts on what you guys have said about different exhaust modifications, but here is what I am trying to decide. Do I (a) install Akrapovic slip-on, K&N air filter and ECU flash or (b) install full Arrow exhaust, K&N air filter and ECU flash. I don't neccessarily care about doing away with the cat converter. It's more about a little weight savings, small performance gains and perhaps better throttle response. Any input is greatly appreciated, especialy anyone who might have experience with both set-ups. Great forum and I enjoy reading what you guys have to say.
 

Koinz

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I have a leo vince slip-on and recently had the ECU-Flash done. That's it. Bike is plenty fast for me. ..... and it makes a little noise now too; from the exhaust.
 

~TABASCO~

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I've installed all these parts many, many times, in many different combinations... If you like, feel free to call me and I can answer all your questions... If I typed out all the info it would be fifteen paragraphs...
 

Doug C

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The most notable difference will come with the flash. Small improvements to be had with exhaust and air filter, besides weight reductions and slightly louder.
Doug
 

Ironhand

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Doug C said:
The most notable difference will come with the flash. Small improvements to be had with exhaust and air filter, besides weight reductions and slightly louder.
Doug
+1. I am running an Arrow can and the UNI pod filters, and had the flash (AVC) done over the winter. Biggest bang for the buck by far was definitely the flash. Absent a back-to-back ride on a stock bike, I am not sure that I would feel any difference with the exhaust or filters. Definitely sounds better, though.
 

Karson

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For rideability, the ECU flash takes the cake.

For raw power, the arrow cat-less headers walk all over the flash. But with headers, you need to address fueling unlike just an end can.

If I had to do it over again and had the coin at the time to do it the way I preferred, I'd of had my dyno tuned Power Commander map I posted here put into the ECUnleashed flash.

I'd do it in this order. Flash -> Headers/PCV -> End Can

I have no problem when I turn on hooligan mode getting the front tire airborne O:)
 

Mikeybikey57

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Koinz said:
I have a leo vince slip-on and recently had the ECU-Flash done. That's it. Bike is plenty fast for me. ..... and it makes a little noise now too; from the exhaust.
Totally agree. The LeoVince silencer (other brands are also available) makes the bike sound like a 1200cc parallel twin (not a domestic appliance) and the re-flash makes it pull harder, run smoother and for me, leaves it so much nicer a bike to ride. ::26::
 

scott123007

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Karson said:
For rideability, the ECU flash takes the cake.

For raw power, the arrow cat-less headers walk all over the flash. But with headers, you need to address fueling unlike just an end can.

If I had to do it over again and had the coin at the time to do it the way I preferred, I'd of had my dyno tuned Power Commander map I posted here put into the ECUnleashed flash.

I'd do it in this order. Flash -> Headers/PCV -> End Can

I have no problem when I turn on hooligan mode getting the front tire airborne O:)
So Karson, let me see if I'm understanding you correctly. You're saying the headers still need the PCV? I ask because when I had my bike flashed, I thought telling them going in, what was done to my bike, would determine what fuel map they would use. I realize it has that slight surging around 2-2500 rpm in low gears, because of the closed loop low RPM fueling, but I thought the higher RPM's were covered by the flash. No?
 

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scott123007 said:
So Karson, let me see if I'm understanding you correctly. You're saying the headers still need the PCV? I ask because when I had my bike flashed, I thought telling them going in, what was done to my bike, would determine what fuel map they would use. I realize it has that slight surging around 2-2500 rpm in low gears, because of the closed loop low RPM fueling, but I thought the higher RPM's were covered by the flash. No?

If you want the best set up the flash needs more fuel in specific areas the flash cant provide.... = PCV I've had the opportunity to ride 2/3 bikes all lined up outside with the same parts with and with out PCV or flash, etc... You can tell a big difference when you ride the bikes back to back....
 

scott123007

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~TABASCO~ said:
If you want the best set up the flash needs more fuel in specific areas the flash cant provide.... = PCV I've had the opportunity to ride 2/3 bikes all lined up outside with the same parts with and with out PCV or flash, etc... You can tell a big difference when you ride the bikes back to back....
Ok, thanks Jaxon...
So my next question. The ECU can't provide the extra fueling? I mean, now that an ECU can be hacked (a la AVC) not just the ECUnleashed map, it is still not possible to get the fuel maps rich enough for a full system without a PCV?
 

Karson

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scott123007 said:
Ok, thanks Jaxon...
So my next question. The ECU can't provide the extra fueling? I mean, now that an ECU can be hacked (a la AVC) not just the ECUnleashed map, it is still not possible to get the fuel maps rich enough for a full system without a PCV?
I'm on my phone, but if I remember right, the map I uploaded after getting dyno'd was still lean in all of the closed loop and below.


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Rasher

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I have arrow headers - the weight saving is minimal on a bike that ways upwards of 250kg, you just won't notice it.

The power increase is significant, about 6BHP on mine, and with the Flash is now up about 10BHP on stock, I suspect the flash alone is 2-3 BHP at the top end.....

.... But the Flash is about removing the low down restrictions in 1st - 3rd gear which makes a huge difference, for example my bike has more than 25% more power at 40mph in 3rd, this is why the Flash is the number one mod for most, it gives a stack of extra Ooomph where the bike gets used a lot, especially if you ride really twisty roads.

The Flash does not 100% sort out low speed fuelling, neither ECU-U, nor Flashtune have managed to sort this, others know more about this that I do, buy I think there are some areas of the fuel map they either cannot adjust, or only have limted adjustment off and this prevents them sorting the surging that occurs at <5% throttle @2,000rpm.

This means you either have to live with it (not difficult to ride around) or go to the expense of a Power Commander which then makes the extra bit of top end power they give very expensive, if you have the budget do the lot as the top end increase is noticeable, mine no longer feels like it is running out of puff towards the redline.

The surge still annoys me a little, but on open roads is not an issue, I have just done a 1500 mile trip and had 5 days in the Alps on tight mountain roads, not once did I find the bike surging - the only time it hits me is crawling along in traffic, but if I had to do my daily rush hour commute on the S10 I would either have to fit the Power Commander or remove the headers.

Flash = Best Bang for buck, and where you will notice it most

Headers = Fair top end gain (but very costly if you want it setup perfectly)

End Can = May improve sound / looks but do not expect any noticeable power gains
 

Ghost69

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So may I ask if isit good to switch out oem air filter to K&n?
Have a yoshi slip on
Just wonder if the oil from. K&n filter will be an issue?
Power over issue?

Isit require more frequent filter cleaning?

Thank you
 

Sierra1

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I used to use K&N in everything I had. Over the years, word on the street was that they weren't so hot. "Regular" air filters increased in quality/flow, and K&N really didn't live up to the hype. They still have a huge following, but I switched back to OE. As it was explained to me, "your throttle body can only flow "X" amount of air, regardless of much is available. And OE can flow more than enough for the engine's needs." Then add to that that K&N flows larger sized contaminants than OE.

I also think it's much easier to replace OE filters than clean, and dry a K&N.
 

MattR

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ECU flash in conjunction with Dyno is the best solution. No need for PCV. ECU has different fuel and ignition maps for each gear that PCV cannot access. 2017 model onwards has same ECU as R1 and is very tuneable


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Highwayman

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Rasher did a good job on writing it out.

I also run a full Arrow system and ecu flash. The Arrow system is loud and I personally run the db killer insert and it actually helped with low speed fueling. The ecu flash helped quite a bit, but far from perfect at slow speeds. I would never run a K&N type filter on anything that goes offroad. They dont filter very well and IMHO a PITA to clean and reuse. Id rather stick with oem that filters dirt and dust, yet throw in the trash when done.
 
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