Ester based oils

Saint rob

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I thought long and hard before starting another engine oil thread but I was wondering if anyone on here has used an ester based oil in their S10 - or any other bike for that matter?
As I understand it according to API, group 5 oils are ester based and engineered for high performance engines and therefore afford a greater level of "protection/performance" than group 4 oils which are fully synthetic.
Brands of oil don't really mean anything to me - names are unimportant, some people swear by Castrol/Mobil/Motul etc, that's their choice and I've no argument with that. I choose my oil by the specification but I've never heard anyone talk of ester tech in the same breath as engine oil, hence my question.
The stuff I've seen is API SL & JASO MA/MA2 spec. so it meets the needs and is £28.49 for 10 litres, my head says it's right but I would just like to hear if anyone has real world experience of using this type of oil.
 

Revz

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I’ve used ester blend oil in my KLR650 as well as my K12GT with excellent results. Bel Ray makes high quality products that I trust. It is JASO certified and suitable for wet clutches and seemed to make the KLR easier to shift. I’m guessing an ester blend would work in our Ténéré’s as well, in fact, that’s what I’m running now in mine and change oil at 4-5,000 miles depending on use.
 

Saint rob

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I’ve used ester blend oil in my KLR650 as well as my K12GT with excellent results. Bel Ray makes high quality products that I trust. It is JASO certified and suitable for wet clutches and seemed to make the KLR easier to shift. I’m guessing an ester blend would work in our Ténéré’s as well, in fact, that’s what I’m running now in mine and change oil at 4-5,000 miles depending on use.
Thanks Revz, I've never used the stuff but from what I've read it's technically superior to fully synthetic so it should be a no brainer and this particular stuff is inexpensive at £28.49 which is about $21 for 10 litres. I'd just like a few more peoples thoughts/experiences before I give it a go as I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that are more knowledgable on this subject than me.
 

Berg_Donk

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Snowy Mts Oz
I now use a full ester synthetic in my DR. There is negligible magnetic paste on the sump plug at oil changes compared the semi synthetic oils used previously. As I use up my stocks of other oils, I'll switch to it for the rest of my fleet. Magnetic sump plugs tell interesting stories.
 
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ballisticexchris

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After break in I use nothing but ester based oil in all my bikes. There is no other oil on the market that offers as good of protection. For me type of oil I use is very important. All it takes is one time to blow a hole in your cases or radiator to test your oil.

Rest assured if you have an oil leak and the low light comes on the Super Tenere, your engine is toast with cheap oils. Walmart Rotella lovers will be calling a a flatbed and have an expensive repair bill. I'll repair the leak, refill oil and be back on the road with Ester based oil.

Same with running a bike out of water. Example would be running my KTM 300 dry on single track. The Motul 800 saved my motor. I ran it bone dry for over 8 miles of hard core single track back to my truck. Pulled the head and pipe and the piston/cylinder was fine.

XR600 frame oil plug fell out and I ran the motor out of oil. Did not notice until I heard oil sizzle on pipe and overheat crackle. Got a tow to camp, shoved in a temporary plug, refilled with oil and ran the bike hard for another few seasons. Again ester based oil saves the day.

There is another group of supposed oil experts who are into the "Blacktone Oil Analysis" for proof. Blackstone Oil Analysis is worthless when you are doing a repair with quicksteel on the trail and the damage is already done to the motor.
 
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Saint rob

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After break in I use nothing but ester based oil in all my bikes. There is no other oil on the market that offers as good of protection. For me type of oil I use is very important. All it takes is one time to blow a hole in your cases or radiator to test your oil.

Rest assured if you have an oil leak and the low light comes on the Super Tenere, your engine is toast with cheap oils. Walmart Rotella lovers will be calling a a flatbed and have an expensive repair bill. I'll repair the leak, refill oil and be back on the road with Ester based oil.

Same with running a bike out of water. Example would be running my KTM 300 dry on single track. The Motul 800 saved my motor. I ran it bone dry for over 8 miles of hard core single track back to my truck. Pulled the head and pipe and the piston/cylinder was fine.

XR600 frame oil plug fell out and I ran the motor out of oil. Did not notice until I heard oil sizzle on pipe and overheat crackle. Got a tow to camp, shoved in a temporary plug, refilled with oil and ran the bike hard for another few seasons. Again ester based oil saves the day.

There is another group of supposed oil experts who are into the "Blacktone Oil Analysis" for proof. Blackstone Oil Analysis is worthless when you are doing a repair with quicksteel on the trail and the damage is already done to the motor.
A couple of good examples there, thanks Chris. I'm a firm believer though that there is a big difference between cheap and inexpensive and good oil doesn't necessarily have to be expensive.
 
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ballisticexchris

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Reason for the examples is to take opinion and emotions out of the equation. There are way too many opinions that are unfounded.

Someone who uses a cheap Walmart oil and rides 200,000 trouble free miles loves to brag how good that oil is. With proper coolant and oil temps/levels any oil will work just fine.

See a bike that runs regularly at temps in excess of 300 deg on a long trail ride in the mountains. Then pull off the cam cover and show me the cams. My cams and oil looked like new. My bike is still running strong after more than 300 hours, 2 sets of clutches and a clutch basket with melted rubber dampers (from excessive overheat incidents). Motul 300V/Transoil Expert changed every 10 hours or so. Same engine using Shell Rotella both sides will be toasted after just one overheat incident.
 

WJBertrand

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Rest assured if you have an oil leak and the low light comes on the Super Tenere, your engine is toast with cheap oils.
Not necessarily. The oil light on the Ténéré is a level light as a opposed to a pressure light. If the warning lamp illuminates on this bike it just means you’re low on oil, not out of oil. The engine still has normal oil pressure. No damage would occur as long as the warning is heeded and oil is added before the level gets too low and the pump starts sucking air.

You can tell it’s a level sensing system by just turning on the key. If you wait a few seconds, without staring the engine, the oil light goes out all by itself. In a pressure sensing system, the light would remain on until the engine is started and the oil pump starts pumping.




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ballisticexchris

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I may have been misunderstood. If you are riding along and the light comes on and run out of conventional oil you are in big trouble and the engine is more than likely damaged. With an ester based oil you can run the motor out of oil and it can still be savable. I'm proof of this by personal experience.
 

gunslinger_006

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Last time i looked at it, shell rotella t6 was only like 10% ester content, so that lines up a bit.

Ive used this stuff forever, but that is mostly just because its done so well for me over the years in so many bikes.

In my harley i used mobil 1 vtwin which has iiuc a higher ester content than t6.

Also i like chris’ take on this.

He is choosing an oil that will perform when the oil runs dry. That is smart and a lot like choosing the gear you want to crash in, not the gear you want to be seen in.

I may switch at some point to something with a higher ester content like motul, now that im going pretty far from civilization on my off pavement rides:

 
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ballisticexchris

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I have a heavy off road background and nervous when I know it's a 50+ mile hike to my truck if I break down. I feel comfortable with "worst case" train of thought. I have already found out the hard way of the $500.00 tip over on the Super Tenere.
 

gunslinger_006

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I have a heavy off road background and nervous when I know it's a 50+ mile hike to my truck if I break down. I feel comfortable with "worst case" train of thought. I have already found out the hard way of the $500.00 tip over on the Super Tenere.
Id love to hear of the $500 tip over. I nearly dropped it today when i got too aggressive trying to avoid a pothole on a hard pack logging trail. Rear went way out and track school instinct kicked in: do nothing and let the bike sort it out. Bike sorted it out, but i must admit i had a moment where I wasn’t sure it was going to work out lol.
 

Saint rob

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Reason for the examples is to take opinion and emotions out of the equation. There are way too many opinions that are unfounded.
That is precisely what I was after, real examples of the result of using the stuff although we can only surmise what the outcome would have been had you not been using an ester based oil as we couldn't possibly get conclusive proof of the alternative outcome could we?
 
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Tenman

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I have a heavy off road background and nervous when I know it's a 50+ mile hike to my truck if I break down. I feel comfortable with "worst case" train of thought. I have already found out the hard way of the $500.00 tip over on the Super Tenere.
Age and experience. Those 35 * walkouts stuck in the La. gumbo mud in the cold rain are tuff. Been there a few times.
 
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gunslinger_006

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Also i want to call out that i do think its a valid argument that off road is different in terms of operating environment. Its high output for the motor often with little or sometimes zero airflow over the bike. That is punishing even with liquid cooling and a radiator fan.

The street has no equivalent environment. It would be like being stuck in stop and go traffic and revving your engine the entire time.
 
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ballisticexchris

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Id love to hear of the $500 tip over.
1st one was in driveway and bent footpeg pin and frame mounted tab. Local dealer would not repair it due to liability. So when I got home I had to use a cut off wheel and cut through my nice IMS peg and pin to remove and bend tab back. Not too bad except for the long hours of labor and building up of weld material to repair peg.

2nd time was on a slippery off camber into shallow rut. Poor clutch use on my part. Lever sipped out of my hand with wheel turned and tip over. This was big money!! Destroyed adjustable shifter and bend the other tab and footpeg pin. I was very lucky to have the upper crash bars. Nothing more than a rock ding on the bars right where the radiator fan is.

I went back to the OEM pegs and shifter. Aftermarket parts are in a bin. If you add my labor at 100.00 per hour and parts cost, just those 2 tip overs were over $1,000.00 in parts and labor.


Also i want to call out that i do think its a valid argument that off road is different in terms of operating environment. It's high output for the motor often with little or sometimes zero airflow over the bike. That is punishing even with liquid cooling and a radiator fan.

The street has no equivalent environment. It would be like being stuck in stop and go traffic and revving your engine the entire time.
A truer statement could not be made. I have been laughed at for even considering to check my clutch plates and basket condition on this bike during a valve adjustment. Members on this forum as stated it's a waste of labor and time. I have already had one incident where I was slipping the clutch for over three miles to keep this bike crawling forward slowly in large rock formations.

So yes I use the very best oil and maintain my Super Tenere to the highest level possible. And this bleeds over to all my vehicles. I'm a stickler to having pride of ownership and high attention to detail. I was raised like that from a child. And in the Navy it was an easy transformation to their detailed lifestyle.

What I don't like and despise are unnecessary repairs. This is where the Super Tenere shines. The reality is my "anal" approach is going to give me a bike that is better handling and running than the flogged example of poorly maintained ones. With the exception of a worn fork leg bushing my Super Tenere is as good as a showroom fresh example.
 
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gunslinger_006

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I admire your approach. So far the only wrench on my tenere after initial setup has been mine, except tires.

Ill probably have a good indy shop here, check valves and install a graves manyal cct when i hit 25k, otherwise its all me. I too, consider non reliance on a dealer to be a point of pride and independence.

Ordered some motul t4 7100 for the tenere, will give is a good workout and send it to the lab later. Thanks for a great info.
 
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