Engine trouble warning light with no Error Code?

CSA

New Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
13
Update: My bike has been investigated by a Tech in my local Yamaha dealer. He has not been able to find the root cause of the fault, but he has spent time explaining to me what he has done, and to be fair, because they couldn't fix it, I was charged for 1 1/2 hors labour instead of the 2 1/2hours that he spent on it. When he road tested(after investigating) he did have the fault and the Dealership suggested that I might want to carry on looking into it myself rather than have to pay them for (an unknown) number of hours labour for them to carry on trying to fix it.

1) He has measured the resistance of the three wires into the sensor and they are ok.
2) The Error Code 13 is fagging and is immediately becoming an historical code-if it wasn't(if it was a permanent error) it would show in the instrument pack(Clock/meter) when starting the bike.
3) He thinks that the root cause might not be the air pressure sensor, but diagnostically the bike is thinking that it is what the fault (a bit like a faulty starter motor showing up as a missing crank position sensor[CPS] signal because the bike detects the start switch signal but can't detect the CPS signal because the engine isn't being turned by the [faulty] starter motor).
4) He couldn't measure the output voltage from the air pressure sensor(they haven't got the Yamaha tool(which I think is a link lead so that a multi meter can be put in series with the sensor and harness).
5) I think he said that the Reference Voltage is ok. Would that be L1(see attached circuit diagram)?
6) He has contacted Yamaha Technical for help buy they couldn't advise what it could be

I have attached a snap shot of the circuits.
At the moment I am thinking that maybe there is an intermittent voltage spike on the B/L circuit into the sensor, only occurring while riding, that is causing this problem? Does anybody know if an intermittent voltage spike from one of the other sensors spliced into the B/L circuit for the senor would be held as an historical error code?
 

Attachments

Last edited:

pilleway

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 18, 2019
Messages
747
Location
Mexico
Update: My bike has been investigated by a Tech in my local Yamaha dealer. He has not been able to find the root cause of the fault, but he has spent time explaining to me what he has done, and to be fair, because they couldn't fix it, I was charged for 1 1/2 hors labour instead of the 2 1/2hours that he spent on it. When he road tested(after investigating) he did have the fault and the Dealership suggested that I might want to carry on looking into it myself rather than have to pay them for (an unknown) number of hours labour for them to carry on trying to fix it.

1) He has measured the resistance of the three wires into the sensor and they are ok.
2) The Error Code 13 is fagging and is immediately becoming an historical code-if it wasn't(if it was a permanent error) it would show in the instrument pack(Clock/meter) when starting the bike.
3) He thinks that the root cause might not be the air pressure sensor, but diagnostically the bike is thinking that it is what the fault (a bit like a faulty starter motor showing up as a missing crank position sensor[CPS] signal because the bike detects the start switch signal but can't detect the CPS signal because the engine isn't being turned by the [faulty] starter motor).
4) He couldn't measure the output voltage from the air pressure sensor(they haven't got the Yamaha tool(which I think is a link lead so that a multi meter can be put in series with the sensor and harness).
5) I think he said that the Reference Voltage is ok. Would that be L1(see attached circuit diagram)?

I have attached a snap shot of the circuits.
At the moment I am thinking that maybe there is an intermittent voltage spike on the B/L circuit into the sensor, only occurring while riding, that is causing this problem? Does anybody know if an intermittent voltage spike from one of the other sensors spliced into the B/L circuit for the senor would be held as an historical error code?
Have the technician followed the Service Manual diagnostics to check your bike?
Attached you can find Fault code 13 for help.
Hope it helps! keep posted.
Regards.
 

Attachments

CSA

New Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
13
Hi pilleway, The Technician checked the wiring circuits, and I have followed the service manual diagnostics(see my earlier post). I'm afraid this is something outside "normal" diagnostics, but when I have found the root cause I hope I will understand why it is being difficult to find.
 

CSA

New Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
13
If you manage to get the codes, put them on here. If I’m about I’ll look them up.
Error code 13. BUT the air pressure sensor is ok and the circuit resistances are also ok(checked by a Yamaha Technician)
 

CSA

New Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
13
This bike is a 2012 model-the Service Manual that I have is for 2010(for the first XT1200 that I had). I am assuming that the diagnosis,codes and circuits are the same for theses model years- can anyone confirm this,please?
--
 

Squibb

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
1,064
Location
Bedford, UK
My suspicion, if we can now exclude the loom & set the question of an ECU problem to one side for now, is that the fault may only be occurring when the sensor gets heat soaked.

Would it be an idea, if the issue continues, to try a new or maybe a used sensor. New around $150 I think, used maybe $40.
The APS is a common part across the Yamaha range - originally it was 1WS-82380-00, superseded by a new part No. 2CO-82380-00.
 

Nikolajsen

"Keep it simple"
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
2,046
Location
Denmark
This bike is a 2012 model-the Service Manual that I have is for 2010(for the first XT1200 that I had). I am assuming that the diagnosis,codes and circuits are the same for theses model years- can anyone confirm this,please?
--
Yes, exact same bike.
I really hopr you find the cremlins soon...
 

Jlq1969

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
1,749
Location
Argentina
Sorry, it seems stupid what I'm going to say ... did you check that there is not something partially / intermittently obstructing the air inlet of the filter box? ..... You said that at some point the engine stopped. You should try unplugging the air sensor, or leave it plugged in, but take it out of the filter box ... and go ahead and test it. It probably has some limitation, but the engine should not stop

Normally, these sensors (air) do not fail, but if they fail, the engine continues to run with a basic injection program (throttle position and tr / m) .... It is not the same as the “crankshaft position sensor” .. ..without that sensor, the ecu cannot know when to inject fuel and when to release the spark...then the engine won't even start ... or if it was running it would stop
 

CSA

New Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2020
Messages
13
Apologies for not posting an update sooner: Since my last post, I have been able to use my bike daily to get to work(more on that in a while). I have been in email contact(2 off) with Yamaha asking for technical support and I have to say that they have been helpful. In summary, their advise was basically to confirm error code 13 is the air intake pressure sensor (AIP) and to take voltage measurements of the intake air pressure sensor circuits in order to try to locate the circuit fault. In the end I was sceptical of the reliability of such measurements due to the intermittent nature of the fault, and I found a hint in a Youtube video where somebody(albeit on a car) went through and ultimately found that the diaphragm in the AIP sensor on the car was "sticking" when the accelerator was gently pushed but alright with "hard inputs". I thought about this and searched for an AIP sensor for my bike, eventually locating one off an MT07(18K miles) to try. I fitted it yesterday and after 18 miles road test my bike has not faulted. I am going to do some more miles before I declare it is permanently fixed though.
More on how I have been using my bike, the "Work Around"-knowing that the engine was ok after the orange warning light was on, I disconnected the AIP connector (covering the sensor opening and harness connector with PVT tape to keep water out),and rode the bike. It behaved as I hoped and expected so I was happy(ish) to carry on using it (at least temporarily) while I found a permanent fix.
Assuming that I have found the root cause (faulty AIP sensor), I am considering emailing Yamaha to let them know that I have found the fault and to see if they want to improve the diagnostics in the Service Manual because I am not at all sure that the process in the manual can find the error state that I had in the AIP sensor on my bike. I will also drop in to let the Tech who tried to fix my bike, what I found.
Thanks to all for the kind advise that I have received.
I will update in maybe a week to advise if I have a permanent fix or not.
 

wibmerjoska

Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2020
Messages
38
Location
London
After the road test I can confirm that the fault is still there! I rode for 3.5 miles and the engine stopped while I was in traffic(no warning lights). It wouldn't start for 3/4 tries but on about the 4th try, the orange warning light came on and it started. I rode home ok with a slightly rough idle and the orange light on.
This morning Error Code 13 is back and in d:03(no others) the display is 101 (throttle closed)and it varies up and down when using the starter and turning the throttle-so according to the diagnostic procedure the sensor is ok(?), and the orange light is off and the engine starts and idles ok.
I have the bike booked into my local Yamaha dealer for them to repair on Monday.
hi there, same thing happened right after the MOT test orange engine warning light came on and doesn't go back to normal..

obviously because of spinning the wheels in the MOT test centre?

Anyone can help please?
Thanks
 
Top