Engine noise at startup

JerryGeorge

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Hi, before the end of the riding season in 2020 I was having an intermittent problem with excessive top end engine noise on cold starts. The noise would only last for 5 to 10 seconds. It sounded like the top end was possibly not getting oil. I checked the oil level, and it was good. At times I would shut it down fearing the motor was about to fail. When I started it again, the noise did not reoccur. This only occurred on startup, not while riding. I have read some threads about the noise created by the timing chain. Is it a possibility? My Tenere is a 2012 with 121,000 kms. It will be another month or more before the snow goes here, so I am trying to get ahead of this if I have to get parts. I would appreciate your feedback.
 

StefanOnHisS10

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That would be an easy fix for him! Just two bolt I believe.

Edit: Don’t do this, instead scroll down to post #7 from TOBASCO
 
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EricV

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I had a CCT failure on my '12 Super Ten at 133kms. What you describe is exactly what I heard in the days preceding the failure. I was on a trip in Alaska and let it go until I got home, but made a fatal mistake and changed the oil myself prior to taking it into the dealer. I had an appointment the next day, so changed the oil to save some coin and when I went to start it, the Cam Chain slipped due to a lack of oil pressure on start up.

Do NOT change the oil until you get this sorted. The original CCT on the '12s has been superseded a few times and the most current version is the only one being sold now, and it's fine. The CCT uses oil pressure to help tension it besides it's internal spring. When you change the oil, dumping the engine and sump, there is a slightly longer delay before oil pressure builds, and that left the cam chain loose enough to slip.

Mine was covered under an existing YES warranty, but was around $4500 USD if I hadn't had the warranty coverage. Took 4 months since I was one of, if not the first in the US and they didn't know it was a problem yet. They still like to deny that, but Yamaha now recommends replacing the CCT before the second valve check interval.
 

JerryGeorge

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I had a CCT failure on my '12 Super Ten at 133kms. What you describe is exactly what I heard in the days preceding the failure. I was on a trip in Alaska and let it go until I got home, but made a fatal mistake and changed the oil myself prior to taking it into the dealer. I had an appointment the next day, so changed the oil to save some coin and when I went to start it, the Cam Chain slipped due to a lack of oil pressure on start up.

Do NOT change the oil until you get this sorted. The original CCT on the '12s has been superseded a few times and the most current version is the only one being sold now, and it's fine. The CCT uses oil pressure to help tension it besides it's internal spring. When you change the oil, dumping the engine and sump, there is a slightly longer delay before oil pressure builds, and that left the cam chain loose enough to slip.

Mine was covered under an existing YES warranty, but was around $4500 USD if I hadn't had the warranty coverage. Took 4 months since I was one of, if not the first in the US and they didn't know it was a problem yet. They still like to deny that, but Yamaha now recommends replacing the CCT before the second valve check interval.
Thanks for your feedback
 

~TABASCO~

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Throw a manual unit in it and be done with the several versions of the 'stock' unit. BTW- if you don't know, there is a bit more to it than just pulling two bolts and throwing in a new one and re installing the two bolts... Don't do that ! LOL
 

StefanOnHisS10

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Throw a manual unit in it and be done with the several versions of the 'stock' unit. BTW- if you don't know, there is a bit more to it than just pulling two bolts and throwing in a new one and re installing the two bolts... Don't do that ! LOL
Ow... I stand corrected sir. I'm going to whip myself and cry in a corner of the room..
 

RCinNC

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I've been reading these threads now since I bought my S10 in 2014, and I think I've finally decided to swap out my OEM automatic CCT (it's the original one that came with the bike) with a manual unit when my third valve check rolls around in a couple thousand miles. As far as I can see, the major advantage to the automatic CCT is just that: you don't have to mess with it. Though from what I've read, you don't really have to mess with the manual unit very often either, once it's set. And the manual ones appear to be immune from catastrophic failure, unless the threaded shaft actually breaks (which I've never heard of).

I plan on steering clear of the no-name eBay units, only because it's a little harder to tell what sort of quality you're actually getting. The only manufacturers I'm at all familiar with is APE and Graves. I've read the description of the Graves unit on their site, and they boast about the unit's precision and micro adjustment ability. I don't doubt that's true, but honestly, is that sort of extreme precision necessary in a CCT? There's quite a price difference between a Graves and an APE, but it there an actual practical reason to choose the Graves? Or, for that matter, are there other recommendations besides the Graves or APE units?
 

Sierra1

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I didn't think that the Gen 2 CCTs failed. Or, at least I haven't read about one failing.
 

RCinNC

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No, but Yamaha has once again replaced the Gen 2 CCT's with a new version, which makes me wonder what issue they're aware of with the Gen 2 units that resulted in a redesign and replacement.
 

EricV

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regardless, the current CCT is fine. I'd still replace it as preventative maintenance every 52k, but that's me, having suffered thru a failure. Cheap insurance.
 

jrusell

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I've been reading these threads now since I bought my S10 in 2014, and I think I've finally decided to swap out my OEM automatic CCT (it's the original one that came with the bike) with a manual unit when my third valve check rolls around in a couple thousand miles. As far as I can see, the major advantage to the automatic CCT is just that: you don't have to mess with it. Though from what I've read, you don't really have to mess with the manual unit very often either, once it's set. And the manual ones appear to be immune from catastrophic failure, unless the threaded shaft actually breaks (which I've never heard of).

I plan on steering clear of the no-name eBay units, only because it's a little harder to tell what sort of quality you're actually getting. The only manufacturers I'm at all familiar with is APE and Graves. I've read the description of the Graves unit on their site, and they boast about the unit's precision and micro adjustment ability. I don't doubt that's true, but honestly, is that sort of extreme precision necessary in a CCT? There's quite a price difference between a Graves and an APE, but it there an actual practical reason to choose the Graves? Or, for that matter, are there other recommendations besides the Graves or APE units?
The graves uses fine thread vs the coarse thread of the APE on the bolt. This is why they brag on the adjustability. The Graves has a oil bleed hole to mimic the stock tensioner and they say this is a benefit. I really don't see this as a plus or as needed on a manual unit.

APE has 2 different versions, pro series or the classic version. Pro is a little slimmer design for tight spaces if you feel you need that.
All three tensioners, APE pro, classic or Graves are quality products and will serve you well with no issue.

Pick what ever fits your budget and is available. I used the Graves because of availability, but would have used the APE without hesitation.

One of the bigger benefits to a manual adjuster is the install. It can be installed with just the clutch cover removed.
I would not install a stock tensioner without removing the valve cover and zip tying the chain to the cams. I know some have probably done it, but too much risk in my opinion.

Steer clear of cheaper knock offs. APE classic is inexpensive and best bang for your buck.
 

Don in Lodi

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The Graves handles oil flow better than the APE. It's not real important with our low rpm motors, compared to the R1's 15k? rpm. The Graves has a bleed off to mimic the bleed off from the auto tensioner, keeps the R1 from flooding it's valve cover with oil at the ultra high rpm's. And yes, that tensioner should have been replaced many miles ago.

Ooops, same/same.
 
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jrusell

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Hi, before the end of the riding season in 2020 I was having an intermittent problem with excessive top end engine noise on cold starts. The noise would only last for 5 to 10 seconds. It sounded like the top end was possibly not getting oil. I checked the oil level, and it was good. At times I would shut it down fearing the motor was about to fail. When I started it again, the noise did not reoccur. This only occurred on startup, not while riding. I have read some threads about the noise created by the timing chain. Is it a possibility? My Tenere is a 2012 with 121,000 kms. It will be another month or more before the snow goes here, so I am trying to get ahead of this if I have to get parts. I would appreciate your feedback.

Here is a link to the classic tensioner rattle and eventual failure.
You will notice his only rattles for a few seconds. If yours rattles for 5 -10 seconds I would not start the bike until you get it fixed.

If you are confident on your ability to adjust a manual adjuster go with one of them. If not get the latest Yamaha one and find a competent mechanic to do the install. Insist the mechanic pull the valve cover and tie the chain to the cams and double/triple/quadruple check the timing is correct before starting the bike.
On most inline 4 cylinders it is possible to just unbolt and install a new tensioner. This is because the valve springs have tension pushing both ways on the cams and generally speaking they will just stay where the are.
On our bike with just 2 cylinders and the 270 degree crank there is no real spot where the cams want to stay put. If you just pull a tensioner the cam chain will slip and if not corrected you will cause serious damage as others have mentioned.

I cannot say this loudly enough, find an experienced mechanic.

here is the clip.

 

Boris

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OP, I have a 2013 bike and I had a Yamaha main dealer change my CCT at 10k-15k miles, as the early versions had the potential to fail. The main dealer definitely did this without removing the valve cover, suggesting that they have a detailed procedure for it.

in the UK the CCT was way more than the labour costs.
 

SeaBass

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Here is a link to the classic tensioner rattle and eventual failure.
You will notice his only rattles for a few seconds. If yours rattles for 5 -10 seconds I would not start the bike until you get it fixed.

If you are confident on your ability to adjust a manual adjuster go with one of them. If not get the latest Yamaha one and find a competent mechanic to do the install. Insist the mechanic pull the valve cover and tie the chain to the cams and double/triple/quadruple check the timing is correct before starting the bike.
On most inline 4 cylinders it is possible to just unbolt and install a new tensioner. This is because the valve springs have tension pushing both ways on the cams and generally speaking they will just stay where the are.
On our bike with just 2 cylinders and the 270 degree crank there is no real spot where the cams want to stay put. If you just pull a tensioner the cam chain will slip and if not corrected you will cause serious damage as others have mentioned.

I cannot say this loudly enough, find an experienced mechanic.

here is the clip.

Actually, if you are a little mechanic inclined, you can follow this post and it will be done with some ease. I did that for changing mine 7 months ago and it was not as much a PITA as I thought it would be.
Make sure you put the K in line with the notch on the block before you wedge the tension are like the poster did and you are golden to take the old one out and put he manual.

20210318_110313.jpg

Before you pull whatever you used to wedge the tension arm, adjust the MCT until you feel extra resistance, come back a little bit, take the wedge off, close the clutch cover and run the engine. if needed keep gradually adding tension until it sounds right.
 

Bryce

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No, but Yamaha has once again replaced the Gen 2 CCT's with a new version, which makes me wonder what issue they're aware of with the Gen 2 units that resulted in a redesign and replacement.
Yep. The original Gen 2 is on the left and the new is on the right. While I was adjusting the valves on my '14 the cam chain tensioner got hung up and would not extend after being retracted a few times.


Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 

Kyle_E

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One of the bigger benefits to a manual adjuster is the install. It can be installed with just the clutch cover removed.
I would not install a stock tensioner without removing the valve cover and zip tying the chain to the cams. I know some have probably done it, but too much risk in my opinion.
Why does the factory style one would need the valve cover off? I'm going with a manual one when I do mine soon, but was just curious.
 
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