emission delete
- Thread starter robson
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WJBertrand
Ventura Highway
Yes, catalyst, evaporative controls, etc. Unless it's malfunctioning (or you wish to demonstrate your protest) what would be the point to remove it?
Tenman
Well-Known Member
I took it off my 73 Mach 1
It smooths the engine work in 1-3 gears, throttle less snatchy, engine runs cooler.
I did it on my ktm and yamaha xt and never looked back. Especially removal of 02 sensors and AIS/SAS is beneficial.
jbrown
Active Member
Motorcycles are in a precarious position as far as emissions go here in California. While the manufacturers have to meet increasingly strict limits each year, it's not nearly as strict as for cars, and we don't need to have them tested periodically like cars. If we abuse the system by defeating emissions equipment, it seems clear to me that the rules will adapt and make our lives much more difficult. I'd rather suffer minor performance issues than have to deal with bi-annual inspections and more red tape. I keep the emissions stuff working on my bike!
EricV
Riding, farkling, riding...
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Only the California bikes in the US have charcoal canisters, unless something changed recently.
Yes, cat converter in the header pipe and O2 sensors.
Removing the O2 sensors is not advisable unless you have the ability to tune the bike with an exhaust gas analyzer. They provide real time feedback to create an optimal air/fuel ratio.
Ask yourself what you hope to gain? Then share that so we can tell you if that is a reasonable expectation.
Yes, cat converter in the header pipe and O2 sensors.
Removing the O2 sensors is not advisable unless you have the ability to tune the bike with an exhaust gas analyzer. They provide real time feedback to create an optimal air/fuel ratio.
Ask yourself what you hope to gain? Then share that so we can tell you if that is a reasonable expectation.
read my earlier post, it's not a hope it's a fact and results are real. I read on this forum like you complain for jerky low speed
character etc , that;s the reason, SAS, O2, emission BS.
BTW the most damage to atmosphere is done by large plants not by cars or bikes. Just another BS like global warming to
pull the more cash.
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I decalifornicated my Honda 919 because they had hung the canister off the bottom of the bike as an afterthought, right where the center stand is supposed to go. I decalifornicated my KTM 500 because it was popping terribly, plus the canister was located in a space where the larger fuel tank needed to go. In these contexts, the evap system was laughable. However, the Super Tenere implementation is fine so there is no reason to mess with it.
BTW, if you do, don't use a rubber cap to plug the vacuum from the engine. It'll eventually crack and fail. Instead, use a metal cap and hose clamp.
BTW, if you do, don't use a rubber cap to plug the vacuum from the engine. It'll eventually crack and fail. Instead, use a metal cap and hose clamp.
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Remove the O2 sensors?! Where do you think the computer gets it's info from? Taking the O2 sensors off is fine....as long as you're putting carburetors back on. For better or worse, todays engines are finely tuned/engineered. If you think your throttle is too "jerky"....either flash it....or learn how to ride it. It took me about 20 minutes in traffic for my wrist to "re-calibrate". I now shift so smooth, my wife doesn't even feel it; and that's in "S". Now....global warming....I do believe it's real. The reasons for it though....those may be exaggerated; but THAT is a WHOLE different thread.
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EricV
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Robson, you're going to do what you want to do, and that's all good. Having spent plenty of time tuning EFI engines for performance and mods, I don't share your opinions. Throwing fuel at the problem does not equate to "tuning", IMHO. The Gen II Super Ten is not quite the same as the Gen I, especially the Euro4 tuned ones you would likely be seeing. I do believe all the Euro4 bikes have charcoal canisters. No big deal to remove that if you want. Keeps it from clogging with fuel in a tip over. Getting it past MOT, if you have that requirement where ever you are in Europe, is your only real issue.
If you delete the O2 sensors you're just running open loop all the time, basically off the pre-programed maps and not taking advantage of any feedback info from the engine sensors. You may feel this solves your perceived issues, but it's sloppy as all get out. There are easy and more elegant solutions like custom flash, rather than just disabling a host of technology that's already built into the bike.
Honestly, why not just ride the bike some before you start planning on what you are going to do? See what actually happens instead of assuming you already know what's going to happen. Face Palm indeed. We're having that same response to your posts.
If you delete the O2 sensors you're just running open loop all the time, basically off the pre-programed maps and not taking advantage of any feedback info from the engine sensors. You may feel this solves your perceived issues, but it's sloppy as all get out. There are easy and more elegant solutions like custom flash, rather than just disabling a host of technology that's already built into the bike.
Honestly, why not just ride the bike some before you start planning on what you are going to do? See what actually happens instead of assuming you already know what's going to happen. Face Palm indeed. We're having that same response to your posts.
question was if anybody did it not if it's beneficial for engine because I know IT IS.
If you don't know anything about emission scam and junk added to your vehicle that's fine,
but I'm not interested on your opinion on the subject.
If you don't know anything about emission scam and junk added to your vehicle that's fine,
but I'm not interested on your opinion on the subject.
GearheadGrrrl
Active Member
Robson, you don't know what you're talking about. I can see maybe deleting the Euro6/EPA2010 diesels where the systems have become really oppressive, but the S10's emissions system works well and has little negative effect on performance. You really need to learn how these systems work before you muck about with them.
EricV
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Yes, people have removed the charcoal canisters. Yes, people have deleted the cat from the header, or replaced it with an Arrow header that has no cat. Yes, people have deleted the O2 sensors and replaced them with add on piggyback ECU devices like PCV and others.
You can't just remove the emissions stuff all together and expect the bike to run. And you'll spend a tidy sum to get it back to where it ran before you removed everything. If you want to talk about scams, all the crap being sold to people like you that think there are benefits to trying to out tune the factory ECU instead of using it as part of the tools to tune, that's a scam.
BTW robson, this isn't a pos KTM that has such poor firmware that it has to be constantly updated. If you've never owned a throttle by wire bike, don't buy a Super Tenere. You'll hate it and waste a huge amount of money trying to "fix it" instead of learning how to ride it.
You can't just remove the emissions stuff all together and expect the bike to run. And you'll spend a tidy sum to get it back to where it ran before you removed everything. If you want to talk about scams, all the crap being sold to people like you that think there are benefits to trying to out tune the factory ECU instead of using it as part of the tools to tune, that's a scam.
BTW robson, this isn't a pos KTM that has such poor firmware that it has to be constantly updated. If you've never owned a throttle by wire bike, don't buy a Super Tenere. You'll hate it and waste a huge amount of money trying to "fix it" instead of learning how to ride it.
I admit, I do not like throttle by wire. That being said, I understand why it's used. For ME, the adjustment to it on the Tenere was VERY easy. My Jeep....not so much....it has a "stumble" off idle that I can't adjust my feet to. (manual trans only) But, it doesn't bother me enough to change/flash the programing. Adapt, and overcome.
tallpaul
Well-Known Member
I don't find a difference between throttle by wire or cables for any vehicle. They all need some form of adjustment by the operator. The S10 is very different to the 650 Vstrom but as Sierra1 says, you adapt. Both my cars are throttle by wire and both are very different to drive. Not in a bad way, just different and you drive accordingly. I only use my S10 in "S" mode and it caught me out the first time I rode it with the engine braking and immediate urge when you open the throttle, but once the wrist is calibrated then all is well.
Actually, it will be better for you to probe it and transmit your experience
Do, you can do many things. Can change the injectors and remap ECU , for a few more fuel flow, but you need the engine to breathe better, then you have to change intake for more a larger diameter, but you need to change the compression ratio to burn the most fuel, but the largest compression will cause more load on piston and road bearings and crankshaft, so you will have to make new ones harder. All this will cause more heat, then you need to change cooler system for a larger one, and probably reach 130/140 hp at the same 7500rpm.
But, if you want to reach 150/160 hp, you have to increase the engine rpm to 9000/10000....but this generate vibrations that must be eliminated.
But the clutch was for 112hp and 11 kgm and will begin to slip with the new hp and the rubber joint between final drive a rim, was for 11kgm torque, not for 13/14 kgm, and the rear spokes, rim, the box gear, etc,etc etc
OVER THE YEARS, I LEARNED THAT THE FACTORY ENGINEERS, WERE NOT AS STUPID, AS MY MECHANIC TOLD ME
Do, you can do many things. Can change the injectors and remap ECU , for a few more fuel flow, but you need the engine to breathe better, then you have to change intake for more a larger diameter, but you need to change the compression ratio to burn the most fuel, but the largest compression will cause more load on piston and road bearings and crankshaft, so you will have to make new ones harder. All this will cause more heat, then you need to change cooler system for a larger one, and probably reach 130/140 hp at the same 7500rpm.
But, if you want to reach 150/160 hp, you have to increase the engine rpm to 9000/10000....but this generate vibrations that must be eliminated.
But the clutch was for 112hp and 11 kgm and will begin to slip with the new hp and the rubber joint between final drive a rim, was for 11kgm torque, not for 13/14 kgm, and the rear spokes, rim, the box gear, etc,etc etc
OVER THE YEARS, I LEARNED THAT THE FACTORY ENGINEERS, WERE NOT AS STUPID, AS MY MECHANIC TOLD ME
Cycledude
Well-Known Member
Pleas keep us updated on how things are working out for you robson
To ME, there seems to be less of a difference with throttle by wire when it's paired with a auto trans; just quicker response. When it's paired with a manual, the "gray area" is MUCH smaller; and the difference is more apparent. That being said, the wife's Cherokee threw an error code. Turned out that the auto trans needed a re-flash. And, amazingly enough, the re-flash was covered by warranty.
ok, no point of farther discussion. Not on this forum.
btw, that pos KTM as you call it beats yamaha/honda in every possible department what is very apparent on Dakar Rally.
Better suspension, better power, better torque, new technology use, plastics etc etc I know because I own one and it's not less
reliable then yamaha or honda I have as well. As a matter of fact, just the opposite, more problems so far I had with yamaha.
btw, that pos KTM as you call it beats yamaha/honda in every possible department what is very apparent on Dakar Rally.
Better suspension, better power, better torque, new technology use, plastics etc etc I know because I own one and it's not less
reliable then yamaha or honda I have as well. As a matter of fact, just the opposite, more problems so far I had with yamaha.