dumb ? Missing rear spoke, safe to ride ?

pluric

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snakebitten said:
Pluric, you ARE the only person I know of that consistently bends these rims.

You don't seem THAT much of a lardbutt. But there is no proof that all those glamour shots are actually you. :)

But let's ass-ume that you are that handsome devil, what are you doing that others haven't? Only you can guess.

(well actually, I can guess too. But surely you can't do THAT on a S10?)
I have to give my sponser some of the blame.

 

Toyboy

So many bikes, so little time........
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Got my bike, have not ridden it yet. My dealer, god bless him, cut me a break on the hourly rate to do the swingarm and wheel. 230 to remove replace swingarm and remove replace wheel, rim etc. Great shop.
You can check the wheels all you want but I am not confident that they will not need constant attention. It is a DESIGN issue. BMW guys have spokes, they like spokes, but do not have to do anything to maintain them with the exception of the a service interval and wash them. With one exception here, everyone is checking or over-checking their spokes and they are still coming loose. IF you want to use the bike on the street like an FJR, fine. If you plan on riding as advertised or intended, won't be a good thing....... The nipples need some type of a retention lock nut/allen like the BMW's to keep from falling off. Rims or spokes are too soft? Something is. Not going to lock tight the nipples, they will be a bear to adjust and it is not something I am willing to do to make up for Yamaha's issue. Not willing to spend 100 a wheel at Woody's to make up for again Yamaha's issue. These wheels will be the Achilles heel of this bike. A great bike.
As for me, I called the BMW dealer, checking what I can get for it on trade on a BMW ADV. Not going to deal with this crap. Might get another one when they sort it out and redesign the spokes. Love the bike. The fact that Yamaha will not let it be a warranty claim and just good will parts, even with documented services is nuts. Since I had it documented, Yamaha Rep said they could not have done good job on the service. I would probably feel differently about the whole issue if Yamaha would be more customer service oriented and not combative about it and living in denial. Not buying it.
One thing does come to mind. Not sure where everyone's bike may fit on this, but I wonder if it is a batch of say wheels that can be identified by when the bike was built. I have Serial number 0058. Wonder how close the other issue bikes are to mine? Just a thought.
 

pluric

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Toyboy said:
Got my bike, have not ridden it yet. My dealer, god bless him, cut me a break on the hourly rate to do the swingarm and wheel. 230 to remove replace swingarm and remove replace wheel, rim etc. Great shop.
You can check the wheels all you want but I am not confident that they will not need constant attention. It is a DESIGN issue. BMW guys have spokes, they like spokes, but do not have to do anything to maintain them with the exception of the a service interval and wash them. With one exception here, everyone is checking or over-checking their spokes and they are still coming loose. IF you want to use the bike on the street like an FJR, fine. If you plan on riding as advertised or intended, won't be a good thing....... The nipples need some type of a retention lock nut/allen like the BMW's to keep from falling off. Rims or spokes are too soft? Something is. Not going to lock tight the nipples, they will be a bear to adjust and it is not something I am willing to do to make up for Yamaha's issue. Not willing to spend 100 a wheel at Woody's to make up for again Yamaha's issue. These wheels will be the Achilles heel of this bike. A great bike.
As for me, I called the BMW dealer, checking what I can get for it on trade on a BMW ADV. Not going to deal with this crap. Might get another one when they sort it out and redesign the spokes. Love the bike. The fact that Yamaha will not let it be a warranty claim and just good will parts, even with documented services is nuts. Since I had it documented, Yamaha Rep said they could not have done good job on the service. I would probably feel differently about the whole issue if Yamaha would be more customer service oriented and not combative about it and living in denial. Not buying it.
One thing does come to mind. Not sure where everyone's bike may fit on this, but I wonder if it is a batch of say wheels that can be identified by when the bike was built. I have Serial number 0058. Wonder how close the other issue bikes are to mine? Just a thought.
I know it's frustrating. I will say I've never had them come loose again after the initial "seating in" period.
Granted they had been to Woody's a few times for the dents, but the spokes never loosened between.
It was maybe within the first 1,000 miles I lost a nipple. You will just have to take my word that the bike
had some serious off road, washboard, high speed ridden hard and put away wet type abuse and never
had a loose spoke again. I will still complain about the butter rims :mad: just the spokes have not been a
continuing issue.

You trade it in on what ever floats your boat. The grass isn't always that much greener. ;)
 

stevepsd

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If you think dealing with spokes is a BIG issue, then wait until BMW tells you that there is no problem with their final drives when this happens to yours...... ???
 

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kraigd

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Okay you have a point. A spoke does not leave one stranded. But I sold my 2010 GSA for that reason, final drive problems. (Not to mention the problems with the other 26 BMWs I have owned) I gave up un BMW cars and bikes because of small dealer network and stupid problems, Big problems. But this is a little problem I should not be having. This spoke wheel has been around for 4 or 5 years. This can not be a new problem. I would expect a company like Yamaha with a reputation of building great stuff to fix it as soon as they know about it. All and all I love the bike. I avg 1600 miles a month and the bike gets better and better. But the spokes are pissing me off.
PS BMW final drive problems started the day they cut it in half.

stevepsd said:
If you think dealing with spokes is a BIG issue, then wait until BMW tells you that there is no problem with their final drives when this happens to yours...... ???
 

Dallara

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~

I can certainly understand the frustration evident here... And if I were in the same boat I'm sure I'd be pissed.

But on the other hand I'm interested in seeing if we can find some sort of common thread or cause in the case of the folks who are losing the spokes. Seems to me that, first and foremost, is the path to coming up with a true and proper solution, for everybody, for the long term.

For instance, I have more than 24,000 miles on my Super Ténéré, and mine was one of the initial ones to come into the USA. Even at that point the word was already out that often the rear spokes in particular had a tendency to loosen in the first few miles. Because of this I was fastidious in checking mine early on, and sure enough, along the way I found a really loose spoke. Fortunately the nipple on mine didn't come off and I simply snugged it up. As the miles rolled on I continued to check, and re-check, the spokes F & R. Never did I find any truly loose ones up front, though often I found one or two that could take a bit more snugging. There were always more spokes in that kind of shape on the rear, but again, as the miles piled on any evidence of loose spokes began to disappear, and all would be tight.

Now I have gotten to regiment of checking them only about every 3,000 or 4,000 miles and at tire changes (averaging about 5,000 to 5,500 miles per). on a *RARE* occasion I have found one or two rear ones that could take some more torque... Not "loose", mind you... Just that could take an eighth turn or so.

Now I ride my S-10 primarily on pavement, but it does get taken off-road, too, occasionally. Whether on-pavement or off- I ride my bike pretty hard (some here have seen how hard), and don't baby it in the slightest. I'm also a pretty big sized gent, and often my S-10 is loaded up pretty heavy with gear, too.

So my question is this: Why do some folks have the broken and/or missing spoke nipple issue, while others don't?

It's apparent that even some who do fastidious maintenance still have the problem, while there are others who do little or no maintenance, other than taking their bike to the dealer from time to time, and they have no spoke issues at all... And it seems every scenario in between.

Some other questions:

- Is this perhaps a quality control issue at Yamaha, either with the rims or the hubs, or even the spokes and nipples? Where perhaps their accepted tolerances are perhaps too lax, and as such some parts get through that cause the spoke issues, whereas any that get out that are well within spec have no problem?

- Or is this an assembly issue at the factory? Where perhaps some wheels are not getting sufficient initial spoke tension, and as such some spokes never *seat* properly?

Perhaps somebody like Woody at "Woody's Wheel Works", or someone else similar, could shed some better light on the issue... And even possible solutions?

Just wondering...

Dallara





p.s. - I'll take this relatively minor issue with the spokes over the potential for final drive problems with a BMW any day...
~
 

AlsoRan

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Toyboy said:
One thing does come to mind. Not sure where everyone's bike may fit on this, but I wonder if it is a batch of say wheels that can be identified by when the bike was built. I have Serial number 0058. Wonder how close the other issue bikes are to mine? Just a thought.
I was curious about the same thing. My bike is #42 so that likely is close enough to yours to rule out a "batch" problem since I have not had any issues other than 3 or 4 spokes that loosened up slightly after a few miles. I have kept an eye on them but no real unusual tendencies after that.

I can only gage from past experience working with Yamaha (and Kawasaki) spoked wheels and although maybe not completely apples to apples since they were competition bikes (but stock rims before it was cool to have Excel rims), the trend has been remarkably similar so I bring it up - they loosen a bit new and then they settle down to a non issue. Yes there are the usual suspects but even they have given up their cause to loosen. But I still check them often as a routine. It's interesting though that the Super T's spokes - at least on my bike have behaved pretty much like any other previously, very good I think for a bike that weighs at least twice as much. Now if they take a hit which they have, then I expect to have to check things out, doesn't matter if it's a buried rock, a square edge or a pot hole.

I still zip-tie for safety...just as an extra precaution.
 

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kraigd

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The funny thing is my bike is the opposite. I never had a loose spoke for the first 15k. Now in the last 5k it seems like I have a loose spoke all the time. I used locktite 290 green at about 16k. I check my spokes everyday now and in the middle of a ride. I need to tighten 1 or 2 spokes every 500 miles. I am going to back every spoke out one or two turns, re tourqe and locktite. I will let you know if this makes a diff.

Dallara said:
~

I can certainly understand the frustration evident here... And if I were in the same boat I'm sure I'd be pissed.

But on the other hand I'm interested in seeing if we can find some sort of common thread or cause in the case of the folks who are losing the spokes. Seems to me that, first and foremost, is the path to coming up with a true and proper solution, for everybody, for the long term.

For instance, I have more than 24,000 miles on my Super Ténéré, and mine was one of the initial ones to come into the USA. Even at that point the word was already out that often the rear spokes in particular had a tendency to loosen in the first few miles. Because of this I was fastidious in checking mine early on, and sure enough, along the way I found a really loose spoke. Fortunately the nipple on mine didn't come off and I simply snugged it up. As the miles rolled on I continued to check, and re-check, the spokes F & R. Never did I find any truly loose ones up front, though often I found one or two that could take a bit more snugging. There were always more spokes in that kind of shape on the rear, but again, as the miles piled on any evidence of loose spokes began to disappear, and all would be tight.

Now I have gotten to regiment of checking them only about every 3,000 or 4,000 miles and at tire changes (averaging about 5,000 to 5,500 miles per). on a *RARE* occasion I have found one or two rear ones that could take some more torque... Not "loose", mind you... Just that could take an eighth turn or so.

Now I ride my S-10 primarily on pavement, but it does get taken off-road, too, occasionally. Whether on-pavement or off- I ride my bike pretty hard (some here have seen how hard), and don't baby it in the slightest. I'm also a pretty big sized gent, and often my S-10 is loaded up pretty heavy with gear, too.

So my question is this: Why do some folks have the broken and/or missing spoke nipple issue, while others don't?

It's apparent that even some who do fastidious maintenance still have the problem, while there are others who do little or no maintenance, other than taking their bike to the dealer from time to time, and they have no spoke issues at all... And it seems every scenario in between.

Some other questions:

- Is this perhaps a quality control issue at Yamaha, either with the rims or the hubs, or even the spokes and nipples? Where perhaps their accepted tolerances are perhaps too lax, and as such some parts get through that cause the spoke issues, whereas any that get out that are well within spec have no problem?

- Or is this an assembly issue at the factory? Where perhaps some wheels are not getting sufficient initial spoke tension, and as such some spokes never *seat* properly?

Perhaps somebody like Woody at "Woody's Wheel Works", or someone else similar, could shed some better light on the issue... And even possible solutions?

Just wondering...

Dallara





p.s. - I'll take this relatively minor issue with the spokes over the potential for final drive problems with a BMW any day...
~
 

Toyboy

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Appreciate ALL of the feedback. Really. The graphic pictures did help jar some memories of some other horror stories I read about. I had a 2010GSA too with 300 miles on it and sold it after having the Super T for a few months. Having to have a spare driveshaft and final drive on the shelf for a new bike was in my mind silly and something I should not have to do. This has been very helpful to me in the long run in trying to deal with the bike or better, Yamaha. So again, many thanks to all for the input.
That has been the driving issue for me. If things had developed differently, Yamaha customer service been supportive and warrantied the bike, I could live with a few spokes coming loose because it is still one hell of a bike and I would know that they have my back so to speak. I bought the 4 year extended warranty for my bike with no intentions of selling it until the wheels fall off. Little did I know that was exactly what was going to happen. :( Been thinking about it all weekend (again) and I think I will just grit my teeth, mutter a few choice words under my breath and just enjoy the bike and continue with my plans. I have that performance package from Tabasco, new seats, got my Heidnau's and will hang on to it. May eventually get some mod done to the wheels from Woody's etc. to help deal with the spoke thing. Barring that, cannot say enough about the bike. Cheers, ride safe...
 
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