"California gas" ruined engine.

Tenman

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Aegis Powersports Extended Service Contract continues to stonewall me. After presenting them with specs on piston rings being out of spec., they again responded with the "poor fuel" excuse for the massive carbon buildup. They also said there is a normal and acceptable amount of oil leakage and fuel that gets into the chambers taht causes carbon buildup. So what I am getting from Aegis Powersports is that it is normal for this engine to have to replace the rings, valves, valve seats, have the engine broken down completely and cleaned every 16,000 miles. That is with using 91 octane fuel and doing regular oil and filter changes. I am going to speak to the owner of the dealership North County Yamahas in San Marcos California soon and see if he will stand behind the product the dealership sold me. The product that apparently doesn't run on California gas for more than 16,000 miles.
NIGHTMARE
 

~TABASCO~

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From your post above this one, that is total BS. This motor is ROCK SOLID ! A tear down with all these new parts is BS.

To answer your question, Yes, and Yes... I took the head off, pulled the valves out and cleaned them. Lapped the valves back into the valve seats and put it back together again. It's a pretty easy job. I suspect this all your bike needs to be back on the road. All this other mumbo-jumbo is BULL. I have pulled the head before looking for bent valves fixing a job the customer messed up. While I was in the motor I cleaned the carbon of the pistons and looked everything over.

If your not mechanically inclined ( I don't know you ) the valve is a "seal". If / when you have carbon build up it wont seal very good and causes "leaking" and it will run poorly. In some of the worst case is the carbon gets thick enough that it wont seal enough to even run and then "it will turn over but wont run"....
Pull the valves, clean the crap off, clean everything up, put it back together, and your on your way for another 100K miles :)

If you have any other questions PM me.. I don't always find questions deep down in a post. I will be happy to give you my $.02....

Other than dealing with these bozo's, mechanically (sounds like) your bike doesn't really need much to be back on the road. "PROBABLY" no new parts needed, just labor to clean everything and put it back together.
 

WJBertrand

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The product that apparently doesn't run on California gas for more than 16,000 miles.
This is BS. I've run 72+ K miles on my '15, almost all of it on "California gas" except for yearly trips out of state. My bike still starts and runs perfectly and does not consume oil between changes every 5K.
 

Checkswrecks

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We've got too many in the 100,000 mile club for that to be true
 

Kurgan

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At this point you probably need to lawyer up. Give them a copy of the aftermarket warranty you were sold along with a timeline of the issues and nonsensical responses from the dealer and warranty people. Have them write a letter to the dealer principal and the president of the aftermarket service plan. It wouldn't be out of line for the attorney to ask on your behalf for a complete refund of the purchase price of the bike, the warranty and damages since they obviously sold you a vehicle that could not run correctly in the state which you reside. Put your riding boot right up their ass.
 

RCinNC

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The OP's dilemma, as much of a pain in the ass as it is for him, does illustrate a very important issue; that these service contracts, that are often touted by dealerships as "extended warranty plans" aren't warranties at all, and they don't offer any of the consumer protections that you have with an actual warranty that falls under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. They don't even have to adhere to the kinds of regulations that govern insurance policies. They're simply a contract written by the provider, and you can bet that the terms are always going to favor the provider. The only thing that's going to govern their conduct are whatever contract laws apply in your state. Read the fine print sometime in one of these contracts, rather than the info in the sales brochure, and you start to see how many caveats there are in that "five year bumper to bumper coverage" they're shilling. It would be interesting to see how exactly the Aegis Powersports service contract defines "mechanical failure", and how it's written to allow them a wide latitude to determine what constitutes a covered mechanical failure and what's a case non-covered operator abuse. Hence the "California gas is the culprit" nonsense.

You're at the mercy of the ethics of whatever company provided the contract and, much like an insurance claim, providers don't make profits by paying out on claims. Even lawsuits can be tricky because again, you're dealing with contract law and not warranty law. The provider only has to live up to the conditions of the contract, and not adhere to the requirements of a law like the Warranty Act. And they're the ones writing the contract.
 

Alexander

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Does anyone know how long piston rings are to last before going out of spec?
Long enough that it's not even mentioned in the maintenance schedule for the first 20,000 miles / 30 months.

I'm sorry you're going through this. As others have said, at this point, I wouldn't bother arguing with the company that supplied the warranty, I'd be making the choice of pursuing legal remedies or eating the cost. Small claims court, etc.
 

gv550

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Does anyone know how long piston rings are to last before going out of spec?
I can't say for sure about the Super Tenere because I have only 150,000 kms on it, but my previous Kawasaki ran fine for 400,000 kms and the ring gap was still in spec when disassembled to repair the transmission.
 

HeliMark

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Does anyone know how long piston rings are to last before going out of spec?
Here is an old video of a S10 that was torn down with a little over 50K miles on it. There is a couple of bikes here that are near the 200K mile mark and still going strong, so I am pretty sure they should stay in spec for many more miles then what you have.

 

ballisticexchris

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Let's face it. The reality is a lot of motorcycle owners are not going to do anywhere near the maintenance required in the service schedule. And a lot of these warranty claims are not honored because of the way the dealer writes them up. My suggestion is to take the bike to a different dealer.

I am actually shocked that Aegis is not honoring your warranty. I have had both Aegis and McGraw service contracts on both my 4 wheel and power sport purchases.

I have had 3rd gear replaced, then my motor replaced on my XR600R. That is 2 major repairs on same bike. Clutch bushing failure on 650R replaced under warranty including all the plates, basket and parts that were damaged under the failure. My transmission was replaced on Chevy Silverado at just under 100,000 miles. My ex wife's Tahoe. One of the self leveling shocks started to leak. They replaced them as a pair under warranty.

My point is I have never ever been denied an extended warranty claim from either Aegis or McGraw. Aegis is the gold standard for aftermarket extended warranty in power sports. I have a feeling the OP just has a poor dealership experience. The warranty company is only going off of the initial information given to them from the dealer. That is how warranties work.


Now if you want to talk about insurance claims!! I wont even go there!!
 

Heathbar

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Here is an old video of a S10 that was torn down with a little over 50K miles on it. There is a couple of bikes here that are near the 200K mile mark and still going strong, so I am pretty sure they should stay in spec for many more miles then what you have.

Thank you.
 

Heathbar

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Let's face it. The reality is a lot of motorcycle owners are not going to do anywhere near the maintenance required in the service schedule. And a lot of these warranty claims are not honored because of the way the dealer writes them up. My suggestion is to take the bike to a different dealer.

I am actually shocked that Aegis is not honoring your warranty. I have had both Aegis and McGraw service contracts on both my 4 wheel and power sport purchases.

I have had 3rd gear replaced, then my motor replaced on my XR600R. That is 2 major repairs on same bike. Clutch bushing failure on 650R replaced under warranty including all the plates, basket and parts that were damaged under the failure. My transmission was replaced on Chevy Silverado at just under 100,000 miles. My ex wife's Tahoe. One of the self leveling shocks started to leak. They replaced them as a pair under warranty.

My point is I have never ever been denied an extended warranty claim from either Aegis or McGraw. Aegis is the gold standard for aftermarket extended warranty in power sports. I have a feeling the OP just has a poor dealership experience. The warranty company is only going off of the initial information given to them from the dealer. That is how warranties work.


Now if you want to talk about insurance claims!! I wont even go there!!
Thanks for your response, I wish I would have the same experience. It is trippin me out because the fix is only $1200. And to be so stubborn over it is strange to me.
 

Heathbar

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I can't say for sure about the Super Tenere because I have only 150,000 kms on it, but my previous Kawasaki ran fine for 400,000 kms and the ring gap was still in spec when disassembled to repair the transmission.
Thank you, that is what I would expect.
 

ballisticexchris

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Thanks for your response, I wish I would have the same experience. It is trippin me out because the fix is only $1200. And to be so stubborn over it is strange to me.
I feel really bad for you getting such a crappy dealer. Under normal circumstances Aegis is a fantastic aftermarket warranty to have. I have to call BS to the dealer saying they called Yamaha and agreed on the "bad gas" excuse. This is a made up story so the dealer does not have to work on your bike.
 

Kurgan

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Thanks for your response, I wish I would have the same experience. It is trippin me out because the fix is only $1200. And to be so stubborn over it is strange to me.
There could be several factors at play with your dealer and Aegis..

Service departments want to make money, first and foremost. What would Aegis pay them for the repair on your bike vs. what the dealer wants to charge you? If they know that "by the book" Aegis would pay them $700 to do the repairs needed but they can try to charge you $1,200 which way do you think they would go? For the extra $500 it's not unreasonable to think a less than scrupulous service department might try to con you with the bad gas story and also feed that line / misrepresent the situation of your bike to Aegis so they deny the claim. Now, Aegis says "no", they're the bad guy, and you're forced to spend $1,200 to get your bike back on the road. I've seen it happen first hand at a sly motorcycle dealership in Michigan.

Where does the money come from to repair your bike with a claim through Aegis? Aegis itself, right? Maybe not.. I worked for an automotive group in Ohio which owned 5 dealerships. They sold 3rd party service contracts on ther majority of their used and even their new cars. Here's where it got weird: Customer pays $2,200 for a service contract. The majority of this $2,200 the dealership kept in an escrow account. When claims were made against it, if approved, money would come out of this account. If the claim wasn't approved, the customer pays for the repairs. It was a large source of profit for the dealer group as often they could legitimize a claim denial...customer didn't maintain the vehicle according to the recommended service schedule, customer abused the vehicle by doing X or Y, etc. I have no idea if that's how many 3rd party plans work, including Aegis. I just wanted to put this out there to illustrate how crazy some of these relationships between 3rd party service contracts and dealers can be. What's the theme with this scenario - making additional profit is primary, providing peace of mind to the consumer is secondary.

Having seen and experienced the above, that's why I recommend getting an attorney involved to help sort this out.
 

RCinNC

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Therein lies the issue: it's NOT a warranty, and you don't have the same rights and protections with the service contract as you do with a warranty. These packages get sold with the implication that they're warranties, and people buy them thinking that they're "extended warranties", and that they're backed by the manufacturer. At least with a denied warranty claim, you can go over the head of the local dealership and complain to the corporate office; that's what I once had to do with Hyundai in order to get my car repaired. Aegis, or whatever company is selling the service contract, can set whatever conditions they want as part of the contract, including forcing you to get your vehicle serviced at a specific location (something they can't do with a warranty).

I don't know if you have the option of contacting Aegis directly rather than hearing through your dealership that Aegis denied the claim, but that's definitely who I'd be on the phone with, especially with this nonsensical "bad gas" excuse that the dealership is telling you.
 

WJBertrand

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Question; why would one buy an Aegis warranty instead of the YES factory Yamaha warranty? The YES warranty can be found fairly reasonably priced if one shops around a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Heathbar

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There could be several factors at play with your dealer and Aegis..

Service departments want to make money, first and foremost. What would Aegis pay them for the repair on your bike vs. what the dealer wants to charge you? If they know that "by the book" Aegis would pay them $700 to do the repairs needed but they can try to charge you $1,200 which way do you think they would go? For the extra $500 it's not unreasonable to think a less than scrupulous service department might try to con you with the bad gas story and also feed that line / misrepresent the situation of your bike to Aegis so they deny the claim. Now, Aegis says "no", they're the bad guy, and you're forced to spend $1,200 to get your bike back on the road. I've seen it happen first hand at a sly motorcycle dealership in Michigan.

Where does the money come from to repair your bike with a claim through Aegis? Aegis itself, right? Maybe not.. I worked for an automotive group in Ohio which owned 5 dealerships. They sold 3rd party service contracts on ther majority of their used and even their new cars. Here's where it got weird: Customer pays $2,200 for a service contract. The majority of this $2,200 the dealership kept in an escrow account. When claims were made against it, if approved, money would come out of this account. If the claim wasn't approved, the customer pays for the repairs. It was a large source of profit for the dealer group as often they could legitimize a claim denial...customer didn't maintain the vehicle according to the recommended service schedule, customer abused the vehicle by doing X or Y, etc. I have no idea if that's how many 3rd party plans work, including Aegis. I just wanted to put this out there to illustrate how crazy some of these relationships between 3rd party service contracts and dealers can be. What's the theme with this scenario - making additional profit is primary, providing peace of mind to the consumer is secondary.

Having seen and experienced the above, that's why I recommend getting an attorney involved to help sort this out.
Makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
 

Checkswrecks

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Question; why would one buy an Aegis warranty instead of the YES factory Yamaha warranty? The YES warranty can be found fairly reasonably priced if one shops around a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Agreed for the next bike, but Aegis is who Heathbar has for this one.
 
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