Bottom plate for AltRider mount for Givi topcase basically crumbled.

cbennett5199

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Any suggestions where I can buy just the bottom mounting plate for this AltRider set? My top plate is fine. Seems like a total waste of $$ to spend $230 basically to replace the bottom plate.

This is what my current bottom plate looks like now. Oh - I ride pavement 99% of the time. The other 1% on easy gravel. Nothing rough (yet). Rack probably has @25K on it. Seems strange.
IMG_20200808_190446888.jpg IMG_20200808_190452479.jpg IMG_20200808_190500731.jpg
 

Sierra1

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Wow, that took a hit somewhere. Looks like stress/impact cracks. Curbs are part of "pavement". That's why I put a skid plate on.
 

Kurgan

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That's just a mess. Not just picking on AltRider, but so many of these aluminum plates are suffering catastrophic fatigue damage - I wonder if the issue is more of their design (too thin of a material, too many aggressive stylized relief cuts) or manufacturing (stress introduced during press bending, not relieved afterward).
 

Sierra1

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I think using them outside their design envelope is more likely. I don't think any of the aluminum plates are design for hard core bashing. I have the Altrider plate, but curbs are about as "hardcore" as I intend on getting. :)
 

WJBertrand

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I think using them outside their design envelope is more likely. I don't think any of the aluminum plates are design for hard core bashing. I have the Altrider plate, but curbs are about as "hardcore" as I intend on getting. :)
How does one bash a top rack plate?


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B

ballisticexchris

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My question would be what did you have mounted on the plate? I like the Alt Rider stuff and would be surprised of that damage if just a duffle bag was tied down on top. OTOH if one of those large top boxes were mounted that would be a lot of stress. In that case I would search for something more durable.
 

Kurgan

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The more I look at that first pic, the more I blame the designers at AltRider. They obviously know the intended use since it's specifically for GIVI top cases. Style over strength with those excessively large cutouts. FAIL
 

Tenman

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I killed mine overlaoding it. It had cracks at every mounting hole. I'm thinking the bolts needed to be retightened. IMG_0618.JPG
 

tubebender

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Timely topic. I was wiping my bike down a couple of days ago and found my lower plate has cracked as well.
All cracks emanate from the countersunk mounting holes. So yeah - stress fractures.
I have a Trax top box (see avatar) where I carry my tools and some other stuff that weighs around 15 pounds, then add my wife who leans against the box.
Since this load is carried in a cantilevered position from the mount points, the bending motion and shear stress has got to be significant.
I emailed Altrider the other day to see if they would sell me just the bottom plate but so far they haven't replied.
To be fair, I'm not blaming Altrider, I know my load is greater then they probably intended. On the other hand, I don't think they calculated how much load it could take either. Style over substance.


I started to make a jig yesterday and have a few ideas to make a lower mount that incorporates a enclosed storage area where I can carry my tools. Should be a fun little project.

Altrider_1.jpgAltrider_2.jpgAltrider_3.jpg
 

Checkswrecks

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You'll see those kinds of fatigue cracks develop from holes where fasteners have loosened or were never tight.

Take the pieces to a local metal fabrication shop and ask what they'd charge.
 

cbennett5199

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Sounds like I'm not the only one with this problem. without any engineering or fabrication background, other than little stuff here and there, when I look at the AltRider rear rack design, it just looks wimpy to me. Yeh, cool cutouts but I'm not surprised it got beat up given the thickness of the aluminum and placement of the mounting bolts. None of the bolts where loose. I always ride with the top box on, and never put the heavy stuff in there - that goes in the Bumont side cases, which are rock solid. But when I have some stuff in the top box, it naturally get bounced around as I go over bumps. Hence, the box is always slightly flexing back and forth, up and down. Always. It's unavoidable, especially how it's positioned up high on the end of the bike.

The first sign of stress failure I saw was at the more centrally located, rear pair of bottom bolts. They're basically in the middle of the bottom plate, as highlighted in the below pic. So what happened naturally? The plate started bending near those, bowing down towards the edges. You can see the stress cracks right at those holes in my initial pics. I was worried about that, but didn't pay attention until I could move around my top box too easily during a quick check before a ride. Took a closer look, and I shared earlier what I saw - a totally failed bottom plate.

I wrote AltRider, asking if I could purchase just the bottom plate. I'll see what comes of that, but am not hopeful given other comments here.

Bottom line - anyone with an AltRider rear rack for a top box I'd suggest reinforcing it (multiple ways to do this) before this happens to you. Seems like a virtual inevitability if someone rides over anything but highway smooth rodes. Maybe I'll try to gerry-rig my own bottom plate with the tools I have. Might not be pretty, but that's the least of my concerns for a part like that.

RearRack.png RearRack2.jpg
 

magic

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I recall a member from Australia had a similar failure some time ago. As a retired mechanic, machinist and welder, I see several things wrong with this design. The aluminum plates are way too thin for this size countersunk hole. The bends in the bottom bracket are too sharp, they look to be bent about 135 degrees, inviting cracking. The spacers under the bottom plate should be larger in diameter to spread out the load. The countersunk screws that attach the bottom plate to the bike should be replaced with maybe hex head screws with large diameter washers, again to spread out the load. The countersunk holes are the full thickness of the material leaving a sharp edge prone to cracking. The countersink should not exceed 70% of the material thickness. I have the same rack and will be making some modifications on the next rainy day. Also, the cutouts are too big as mentioned.
 

cbennett5199

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I recall a member from Australia had a similar failure some time ago. As a retired mechanic, machinist and welder, I see several things wrong with this design. The aluminum plates are way too thin for this size countersunk hole. The bends in the bottom bracket are too sharp, they look to be bent about 135 degrees, inviting cracking. The spacers under the bottom plate should be larger in diameter to spread out the load. The countersunk screws that attach the bottom plate to the bike should be replaced with maybe hex head screws with large diameter washers, again to spread out the load. The countersunk holes are the full thickness of the material leaving a sharp edge prone to cracking. The countersink should not exceed 70% of the material thickness. I have the same rack and will be making some modifications on the next rainy day. Also, the cutouts are too big as mentioned.
I like the suggestions. They make total sense. The bottom rack is basically the foundation for constantly-under-force top box, but somehow built by AltRider as a thin, delicate part elevated (increasing forces) with long, spindly long legs. I have no idea what the designers and engineers were thinking. What would have really sucked is if I were 5K away from home on a longer trip, with the topcase filled with stuff needed for the trip.
 

WJBertrand

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From a materials science / engineering point of view, aluminum parts should be built robustly enough, or reinforced, to prevent or eliminate flexing. Compared to steel, aluminum work hardens very quickly, gets brittle and then fatigues. These racks are all wrong with respect to the thickness, design and mounting method for the material used. I’d be really interested in seeing an FEA model of this design.


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escapefjrtist

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I recall a member from Australia had a similar failure some time ago. As a retired mechanic, machinist and welder, I see several things wrong with this design. The aluminum plates are way too thin for this size countersunk hole. The bends in the bottom bracket are too sharp, they look to be bent about 135 degrees, inviting cracking. The spacers under the bottom plate should be larger in diameter to spread out the load. The countersunk screws that attach the bottom plate to the bike should be replaced with maybe hex head screws with large diameter washers, again to spread out the load. The countersunk holes are the full thickness of the material leaving a sharp edge prone to cracking. The countersink should not exceed 70% of the material thickness. I have the same rack and will be making some modifications on the next rainy day. Also, the cutouts are too big as mentioned.
magic hit the nail on the head here. Another issue I see is very poor machining with tool chatter marks on many of the countersunk holes. Stress risers. My AltRider rack has been the mount for a Holan trunk for several years now. When moving it from my '12 to new '18, one of the countersunk holes did have the beginnings of a crack so the lower bolts were changed to panhead hex with larger thick washers. We'll see how the rack lasts long term.

~G
 
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