BMW GS Update

[Checkswrecks]

Japan went absolutely to the edge with what Deming had to teach. In the process they forced the rest of the world to get better to stay competitive. When I was a kid "made in Japan" was a curse. Now it is a guarantee of quality**

Can anyone say "Six Sigma"?

Wally

** we won't mention Toshiba and San Onofre..........

This really is the key to why Japanese products are so good. Their processes and manufacturing is ALL about continuously reducing variability.

And I gotta hand it to the Chinese for finally getting on the bandwagon with this. They still make two grades of products and a lot is cheapest possible, so is low quality. But when you get into their high end and export stuff, they've thoroughly adopted Deming's statistical process control / Six Sigma / etc into their GB Standards. There are a lot of crap motorcycles being shipped but they also are shipping stuff that competes with Japanese quality in what they are sending BMW and Bennelli. If you like Teslas you ought to see what they are building in electric cars, because the high end ones are easily world class. Heaven help the US and European manufacturers when those EVs start to be imported because they are coming.

 

[magic]

The Six-Sigma principals were developed by Motorola in 1986. The Japanese have taken it to another level with their Kaizen concepts. Kaizen is a Japanese term meaning continuous improvement. Before retiring, I worked for a company that was trying to pattern their manufacturing process after Toyota. They had Kaizen events almost every week, looking for ways to improve every aspect of manufacturing. Everyone from the president down to the entry level production worker had to attend like 4 Kaizen events per year. Some good ideas came out of these events...some not so good.

 

[Goldwing]

Here is the required 6,000 mile service schedule for R 1200 GS Adventure. This is directly off of the dealer service check list of the what is performed. I only know this because I was looking at purchasing a GS when shopping for my adventure bike. All these checks are easy but time consuming when done properly. So for 250.00 you are getting a great deal.



Reading fault memory with BMW Motorrad diagnostic system

Oil change, engine, with filter

Checking valve clearance (for maintenance)

Visual inspection of hydraulic clutch system

Visually inspecting brake pipes, brake hoses and connections

Checking front brake pads and brake discs for wear

Checking brake-fluid level, front brakes

Checking rear brake pads and brake disc for wear

Checking brake-fluid level, rear brakes

Checking freedom of movement of Bowden cables and checking for kinks and chafing

Checking tire tread depth and tire pressure

Checking ease of movement of side stand

Checking ease of movement of center stand

Checking spoke tension, adjusting if necessary

Checking lights and signaling equipment

Function test, engine start suppression

Correcting engine synchronization (for maintenance)

Final inspection and check of roadworthiness

Reading fault memory with BMW Motorrad diagnostic system

Setting service-due date and service countdown distance

Checking battery charge state

Confirming BMW Service in on-board documentation

I Agree

 

[Goldwing]

Latest update. I have 9000 miles on my 2019 GS and still loving it with no issues/problems.

The next service is at 12,500 miles.

 

[Checkswrecks]

The Six-Sigma principals were developed by Motorola in 1986. The Japanese have taken it to another level with their Kaizen concepts. Kaizen is a Japanese term meaning continuous improvement. Before retiring, I worked for a company that was trying to pattern their manufacturing process after Toyota. They had Kaizen events almost every week, looking for ways to improve every aspect of manufacturing. Everyone from the president down to the entry level production worker had to attend like 4 Kaizen events per year. Some good ideas came out of these events...some not so good.

Actually Six-Sigma was an adaptation of Deming's Statistical Process Control, which he started teaching in Japan in 1950. It's what made the Honda motorcycles so successful in the 60s, as well as the early Honda and Datsun cars. Ford picked it up and GM failed miserably - at least in their early attempts. General Electric picked it up in the early 80's and pushed it down into the subcontractor companies, like the one I worked for. I was sent to take the GE course and became the instructor for Kaman Aerospace.

 

[Sierra1]

I used to love GE products; good value. Nowadays . . . . not so much. But, they're not the only ones that have sacrificed their quality for profit.

 

[magic]

Actually Six-Sigma was an adaptation of Deming's Statistical Process Control, which he started teaching in Japan in 1950. It's what made the Honda motorcycles so successful in the 60s, as well as the early Honda and Datsun cars. Ford picked it up and GM failed miserably - at least in their early attempts. General Electric picked it up in the early 80's and pushed it down into the subcontractor companies, like the one I worked for. I was sent to take the GE course and became the instructor for Kaman Aerospace.

Six Sigma was registered as a Motorola trademark. I always thought of it as just practicing good sound business practices and doing it right the first time. I also worked for a company that tried to micro manage everything with SAP, now that was a disaster.

 

[SuckSqueezeBangBlow]

Latest update. I have 9000 miles on my 2019 GS and still loving it with no issues/problems.

The next service is at 12,500 miles.

3500 miles between services? Wow, glad I went with the Tenere instead of the GS. Nice looking bike but not for me.

 

[Boris]

3500 miles between services? Wow, glad I went with the Tenere instead of the GS. Nice looking bike but not for me.

Is that right? I didn’t read Goldwings post as you did.

 

[Nikolajsen]

No no, must be wrong.
I read it just like there is 3500 miles to service.
Nothing about when it was to service last time.

 

[SuckSqueezeBangBlow]

No no, must be wrong.
I read it just like there is 3500 miles to service.
Nothing about when it was to service last time.

You must be right. I though he said it was a 9000 mile service but it was just an update.

 

[Madhatter]

I see everything but anything on a BMW update on this thread ...... this train is off the rails .....

when I decided I was ready for a new bike I went to my local BMW dealer , I was ready to try a BMW , their attitude was such I walked out . a few days later I bought my 2019 super Tenere ...... I have already said this here , but since this is off the rails I repeat myself . an actual update by Goldwing and the discussion to follow would be great .... talking about other brands is great .....

BMW are great bikes but I have never ridden or owned one , I judge by others experienced and ownership loyalties. the Yamaha best virtue is its reliability , and by owning a 2nd bike I already no its vices so I farkle it to death . Yamaha knows its vices but barely moves to address its vices .... it still has a crappy seat for one . the gen 2 windshield is better than gen 1 but is still mostly crap . now heated grips are heaven , cruise control is useful and is appreciated , electric suspension is good but lots of playing to find the right setting for you at that moment , swing and a hit , noooo the ball cured foul . it could be better . the dash is interesting compared to gen 1 , but mine has failed already under warranty , is hard to read at times , and not as simple to understand . but I'm finally getting used to the display. the Tenere is a generation behind on ABS , and why does it not come standard with LED headlights .
I have spent over a thousand dollars just getting it to a standard of comfort and safety through farkling and I am not even close . when I finally get it right I will have as much money in it as a base price GS im thinking . the music side of Yamaha would not put out a grand piano to the standard of the M/C sides super Tenere . my church has a Yamaha piano and I have a Tenere ,I see the difference . you don't (I like my Tenere and I am not planning on getting rid of it , at 63 years of age it might last me till I no longer want to ride .... )have to by peddles for the piano , they are right from the start .
t700 is an interesting bike and at a great price point , looking forward to sitting on one maybe even a ride . I can live with a chain , but not tube tires . me huffing and puffing on the side of a road repairing a flat with tire irons and patches , and it will not be at a good time of day , how much more would tubeless have cost Yamaha to have on the t700 . could have made it an upgrade option.
one day soon I will try a BMW to see what the fuss is about . I like Starbucks .

 

[Dirt_Dad]

[QUOTE="Madhatter, post: 424948, ]
one day soon I will try a BMW to see what the fuss is about . I like Starbucks .
[/QUOTE]

A different world. Every time I sit on my wife's bike I instantly think, 'this is such a nice bike.' They really are different.

 

[Sierra1]

[/QUOTE]. . . . They really are different. [/QUOTE]

I can't argue that. I will never purchase one, but, they're beautiful bikes. They're very capable. And, there are thousands of people that have never had an issue with theirs. I will also admit that the one I rode, was likely ridden much harder than the average consumer. No maintenance was skipped, and all services were completed. It was just ridden hard, the way BMW says they're designed for. And, it was absolutely a dream to ride. . . . until shortly after the warranty mileage was exceeded. On the flip side, the ST1300 that replaced the RT was ridden in the exact same manner, by the same person(s). The Honda never had an issue. . . . ever. The two bikes were similar, both in appearance, and performance.

Somebody on here mentioned BMW should not have the problems they do with their drive shafts, since they should have had the bugs figured our a long time ago. I agree, the drive shaft was the biggest source of down time for the bike. Two of the three RT had the same issues. The third wasn't ridden as hard as the other two. BMW told me that the broken drive shafts were never seen, except in trailering applications. My buddy and I were 300 pounders, which apparently equated to a trailer. I'm pretty sure that there's more than a couple of Teneres on here that have gone very far on very crappy roads, carrying over 300lbs of rider(s), and gear. . . . no drive shaft failures.

My opinion is that if you're a corporation. . . . that is aware of a serious material issue. . . . and you charge what you charge. . . . and you don't address the issue. . . . I will not be a customer.

Slow and steady wins the race. Or. . . . slow is smooth. . . .and smooth is fast.

 

[ballisticexchris]

I've ridden the GS and as I have stated many times the only single thing I liked was the Telelever front suspension. Everything else was horrible. The handling in corners was spooky. Mid corner adjustments with throttle next to impossible, trail braking no joy, and the torque of the motor wanting to pull you down or stand you up. I imagine with a lot of saddle time a rider would get used to it and adapt. Just not my cup of tea.

And then you have those huge cylinders sticking out. Just the short time I have had off road with my Super Tenere would have smacked the GS jugs/crash bars more than a few times in the rocks. And having seen a pro level rider being left stranded with a torn off cylinder (Barstow to Vegas) is a deal breaker.

All that being said there is no denying it is the most popular bike for adventure riders.

When I ride any motorbike I want the handling to be comfortable right away for my riding style. The Super Tenere felt comfortable instantly. Just like my Beta. Over time I have found both the Super Tenere and Beta have proven to be very reliable which is an added bonus.

 

[bmac]

I've ridden the GS and as I have stated many times the only single thing I liked was the Telelever front suspension. Everything else was horrible. The handling in corners was spooky. Mid corner adjustments with throttle next to impossible, trail braking no joy, and the torque of the motor wanting to pull you down or stand you up. I imagine with a lot of saddle time a rider would get used to it and adapt. Just not my cup of tea.

And then you have those huge cylinders sticking out. Just the short time I have had off road with my Super Tenere would have smacked the GS jugs/crash bars more than a few times in the rocks. And having seen a pro level rider being left stranded with a torn off cylinder (Barstow to Vegas) is a deal breaker.

I have to laugh every time I see one of your posts. The torn off cylinder comment that you have brought up before is one of the best. But, your description of your riding experience, and your inability to perform typical riding maneuvers without distress takes the cake. I am surprised that it didn't try and eject you a few times.

 

[bmac]

As far as the R1250GS is concerned I have a little over 19,000 trouble free miles on mine. I did the valve check at 12k in about an hour and most all valves were in the center of their spec. I just replaced the spark plugs and that was easy enough as both cylinders were still attached to the engine.

The more I ride it the more I like it. As I was riding the other day I was thinking to myself that it could be my one and only bike due to its broadest capability of any bike I have ever ridden. It is an amazing bike! If something happened to it I would immediately replace it with the same model.

 

[ballisticexchris]

I have to laugh every time I see one of your posts. The torn off cylinder comment that you have brought up before is one of the best. But, your description of your riding experience, and your inability to perform typical riding maneuvers without distress takes the cake. I am surprised that it didn't try and eject you a few times.

You can laugh but it's very true and no joke. I consider myself an average rider. Nowhere have I ever said "typical riding maneuvers causing me distress". It's cool though you can think what you want.

In Long Beach on the freeway on ramp the GS Adventure I rode did try to eject me. It was the most ill handling machines I ever swung a leg over. I rode the same route with over a half dozen different bikes the same day. Both me and another rider were in agreement on the GS bikes. Right after that test ride I rode a Kawasaki 1600CC Vulcan and was amazed at the handling. I almost thought about buying one. But then a ride on a KTM Super Enduro planted the seed of a true adventure bike.

Motorbikes are a very personal choice. It's not one size fits all. What's a fantastic bike for one rider, sucks for another. The GS is an example of that.

My Beta is another example. For me it is the ultimate adventure bike. It does every single thing a touring bike can do with the exception of comfort and luggage capacity. I do not expect anyone to agree with me. It's my personal choice and experience. I have an Iron Butt and multi 500+ mile days in the saddle of my Beta to prove it's worth. For me it's only the comfort after 300 miles that's lacking when compared to the big bikes.

Once I heal up my plan is to do some hard core travels on my Beta. The BMW GS nor the Super Tenere has anywhere near the capability or versatility of a 300lb bike when it comes to travel off the beaten path.

I met up with a gentlemen from Spain who was riding a KTM 500 from Canada to the tip of Baja almost all off road!! This guy is an animal!! BTW, he did it solo most of the way. I doubt there are many guys who would tackle that kind of ride.

 

[ballisticexchris]

Now this rider puts to shame anyone when it comes to hard core!! He had just finished up the section that tore off the BMW GS cylinder. For the life of me I can't find the pic of that broken off GS jug. It happened in Red Rock Canyon CA.



I cannot imagine getting through here with a GS. I barely was able to navigate this section with my Super Tenere. A few 4x4 jeeps turned back. Just a week before this jeep road was clear. GS cylinders would have got smacked. I bent the crap out of my skid plate and footpegs hit.

 

[Supertee123]

Nice looking bike but unfortunately very unreliable,a friend only bought one and the gearbox needed to be replaced also the left side trottle body, paint work is poor quality,anybody I know that has/had a Gs had big problems with them.
A great spec. to read out to your mates at the coffee shop but not a bike for around the world.