Best recipie on sorting power on 2016 xt1200z Super Ten

Gatis

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#1
Hi everyone.
First post here and apologies if I’m repeating some questions, but still confused even with all the reading.


I’m happy owner of 2016 European 1200 Super Ten since 3 months and love everything about this bike except the power delivery – especially converting from 15 years road to ADV riding.

I’m looking for best reasonable recipe to sort out sleepy low revs and get more overall power. Installing full Arrows exhaust system now and free flow air filter. but quite lost on how to sort out fueling?

  • ECU reflash? Is this the way to go?
    Where in Europe I could do that?
    Can ECU be re flashed considering parts I have installed but without bike present?

  • Power commander?
    How does PC works with ECU? Do they work together or in case of PC it takes over all fueling?

  • Autotune unit? Is it necessary to have that? One or two O2 sensor version?

  • Anything else? - O2 optimizer to calm down ECU. Other?

I’m not looking to squeeze last drop out of the bike whatever is the cost – I don’t race it. But to have it breathing easier would be nice. Otherwise it does not feel like 1200cc now at all.

If you could share best recipe how to sort out fueling! Many thanks!
 

WJBertrand

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#2
With all of those mods, I can't help thinking a custom dyno tune session would be your best bet. The results of that should indicate whether additional components like a PC or autotune are necessary. That said, there's probably no more than 10 additional hp to be had (probably less) without changing internal parts such as cams, valves, etc. A good dyno tune should be able to sort out the drivability at the very least and perhaps add a few ponies.
 

Checkswrecks

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#3
The problem is that your mods combine to lean out the fueling, from the already-leaned out factory mixture, which Yamaha needs to do to meet the emissions requirements.

The ECU reflash would be the cheapest option, but would depend on how it is done. It's generally done to simply provide a different schedule between throttle position and fuel injection command, which would not help a bit. The point is that if you need a person/company with experience with your mods or they will miss the target.

Personally, I'd suggest the PC. The PC works with the ECU by altering the inputs the existing ECU gets from the bike's sensors. The company has suggested maps to download and you can tweak from there.
 

Longdog Cymru

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#4
Hi Gatis, Checkswrecks and WJBertrand have pretty much hit the nail on the head. Your fuel efficient, cat equipped motor is now running weak, probably through the whole range, but you will most probably notice it more in the low and mid ranges.

The ECU reflash is the way to go. Now I don’t know if anyone in Latvia, Lithuania or Poland have the facilities, but I found this place in Germany. https://www.off-the-road.de/en/XT-1200Z/ECU-restriction-removal/
 
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#5
Hi Gatis, Checkswrecks and WJBertrand have pretty much hit the nail on the head. Your fuel efficient, cat equipped motor is now running weak, probably through the whole range, but you will most probably notice it more in the low and mid ranges.

The ECU reflash is the way to go. Now I don’t know if anyone in Latvia, Lithuania or Poland have the facilities, but I found this place in Germany. https://www.off-the-road.de/en/XT-1200Z/ECU-restriction-removal/
Where are you ?
 

Sierra1

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#7
The only time that "I" would consider power delivery "sleepy" is when it is in "T". "S" IS twitchy, until your right wrist gets re-calibrated. Now that I'm used to it, I love the instantaneous throttle response.
 

Don in Lodi

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#8
Hmm, there's a thought; new to the Tenere, I wonder if he found the mode button yet? Sport has always been fun. Once flashed Sport is even more fun.
 

Gatis

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#9
Hmm, there's a thought; new to the Tenere, I wonder if he found the mode button yet? Sport has always been fun. Once flashed Sport is even more fun.
Thanks for all the comments!

Fully aware of Sports mode and dislike it due to twichiness. But probably should give it some time to get adapted as Sierra1 said.
 

Gatis

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#10
Still full Arrows is up for install and need to get the fuel right.

Now the question is Power commander vs ECU reflash. Or still both?
Will try to talk to remappers to learn if they build their custom maps considering different exhausts/filters or just some average beef up in fuel and canceling factory restrictions in original ECU software.

PS. Spoke to Dynojet and they suggest PC5 + Autotune with single O2 sensor.
 

ace50

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#11
Finally got mine re-flashed (1st gen) and S mode feels like the CMJ now. It's smoother and pulls like crazy all the time.
The disadvantage with my tall bars is now I have to lean into the bike just to hold on and not thrown off the bike!
Completely different than T mode.
 

Gatis

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#12
Finally got mine re-flashed (1st gen) and S mode feels like the CMJ now. It's smoother and pulls like crazy all the time.
The disadvantage with my tall bars is now I have to lean into the bike just to hold on and not thrown off the bike!
Completely different than T mode.
Any exhaust, air filter mods on your bike?
 
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#14
The problem is that your mods combine to lean out the fueling, from the already-leaned out factory mixture, which Yamaha needs to do to meet the emissions requirements.

The ECU reflash would be the cheapest option, but would depend on how it is done. It's generally done to simply provide a different schedule between throttle position and fuel injection command, which would not help a bit. The point is that if you need a person/company with experience with your mods or they will miss the target.

Personally, I'd suggest the PC. The PC works with the ECU by altering the inputs the existing ECU gets from the bike's sensors. The company has suggested maps to download and you can tweak from there.
I might also suggest doing it the right way by using a dyno. You just need to know a tuner who really knows how to get any bike dialed in for the power delivery you are looking for. For myself, the only thing lacking on the stock bike is in sport mode. A little clutch work is needed to soften the engine braking. OTOH the engine braking (in sport mode) is really fun when going through the twisties. I can go up and down my local mountain without touching the brakes using only engine braking, throttle, clutch, and gears.

No matter what anyone here suggests, any ECU reflash, PC, dyno tune, even bone stock from the factory is going to be a compromise. By meeting the emission regulations Yamaha's (and other OEM manufacturers) have bikes that run a little lean and hot. The advantage of this is better milage and cleaner burn. Disadvantage is hotter running motor and inefficient fuel supply for maximum power. For now I'm just happy with this bike the way it comes from the factory. Some guys are disappointed with the first three gears being "regulated". I'm scratching my head on that one? I have not come anywhere near the limit of those gears. I can scream the motor in T or S mode and lift the front wheel with throttle and rpm's to spare.

Whatever you decide just make sure it's what you want. Make a list of motor traits you are most interested in. I have read thread after thread on this "ECU reflashing". All I hear is better and great. Whats better and great? Throttle response? Better mileage? Ability to scream the first three gears to the rev limiter? Less engine braking?

For me the stock bike is proving to be more than sufficient. I may down the road want more. IMHO, Yamaha engineers got this one pretty damn good. It's by no means perfect (nothing is perfect). For myself, this bike has more than enough power. And the low speed off idle response is as perfect as it gets. I have my clutch lever adjusted to start engaging right off the bars. This allows me to crawl at less than walking pace. A ECU reflash, PC, or dyno tune will not give me better fueling than that.

I sure do miss the days of getting my bikes power band just right with simple jetting/needle changes and idle adjustment. Thankfully my Beta has a good old FCR carb that's tuned to near perfection for my riding style.
 

Gatis

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#15
For me the stock bike is proving to be more than sufficient. I may down the road want more. IMHO, Yamaha engineers got this one pretty damn good. It's by no means perfect (nothing is perfect). For myself, this bike has more than enough power. And the low speed off idle response is as perfect as it gets. I have my clutch lever adjusted to start engaging right off the bars. This allows me to crawl at less than walking pace. A ECU reflash, PC, or dyno tune will not give me better fueling than that.
.
Fair point ballisticexchris on "good as it is from the box" for intended usage .. probably I should just give it one more season in stock and grow more with the bike.

Its just my feeling is 1200 cm3 bike should be more "alive" in all areas of power, but then again I'm coming from many years of road riding 4 cylinders and have lot to learn on gravel.

Maybe first good step is just to throw on Arrows slip-on muffler, leave fueling alone and just ride it one season? I can always burn cash also later :D
 

ace50

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#16
There is some difference from 1st to 2nd gen as far as smoothness, engine wise and from comments of riders.
I've always hated the fueling on my 1st gen, but didn't want to spend the money to re-flash. I finally got it done as a
B-day present. REALLY like the improvement. Smoothness, power delivery and less decompression.
I have no experience on a 2nd gen.
 

WJBertrand

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#17
Some guys are disappointed with the first three gears being "regulated". I'm scratching my head on that one? I have not come anywhere near the limit of those gears. I can scream the motor in T or S mode and lift the front wheel with throttle and rpm's to spare.

Whatever you decide just make sure it's what you want. Make a list of motor traits you are most interested in. I have read thread after thread on this "ECU reflashing". All I hear is better and great. Whats better and great? Throttle response? Better mileage? Ability to scream the first three gears to the rev limiter? Less engine braking?
The restrictions on the first 3 gears (Gen 1 models) has nothing to do with total available power and does not limit maximum RPM in those gears. It's all about the throttle mapping. The restrictions force a reduced throttle body response compared to the throttle grip. For example (and I am making up this ratio for the purposes of illustration) let's say you're in 2nd gear and you dial in 50% of the available throttle rotation at the grip. Instead of getting the throttle bodies to open to the same 50% the restriction only allows them to open say 30%. Remapping changes this ratio to 1:1 or at least closer to it. 50% at the grip - 50% at the the throttle body.

These restriction when removed drastically change the throttle response and the bike immediately feels much more responsive.
 
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#18
Pretty interesting Jeff. That explains a lot! I must be a wimp. I'm more than happy with the power delivery in stock form. I can stand up the bike when traction control is off and pinning the throttle. It would be interesting to see a flashed bike and stock side by side on the drag strip.

I need to get a lot more saddle time on this beast. I think the restrictions make this bike a much more pleasant ride for 90% of my riding.
 

WJBertrand

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#19
Pretty interesting Jeff. That explains a lot! I must be a wimp. I'm more than happy with the power delivery in stock form. I can stand up the bike when traction control is off and pinning the throttle. It would be interesting to see a flashed bike and stock side by side on the drag strip.

I need to get a lot more saddle time on this beast. I think the restrictions make this bike a much more pleasant ride for 90% of my riding.
From your sig line it looks like you have a 2nd gen Super - T, Note that I qualified my previous message as applicable to the Gen 1 models. Yamaha backed way off on the restrictions starting in 2014 when the Gen 2s were introduced so I am not surprised you haven't noticed it. I had my Gen 2 reflashed and the differences weren't anywhere near as dramatic as those who have done a Gen 1 bike. I was after a smoother throttle on/off/on transition and most of the reflash providers defeat the fuel cut on closed throttle. Now when I open the throttle after deceleration, there's no delay waiting a split second for the fuel injectors to switch back on. It still takes a practiced hand to be smooth in S mode but it's better than before. I think the reduced engine braking in S mode also helps with smoother transitions.
 

Sierra1

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#20
My "seat of my pants" doesn't feel any restrictions on the throttle; at any rpm. As a matter of fact, my Tenere reacts quicker off of the line than my old, now son's, FJR. But, after about 30', the FJR's afterburners kick in....
 
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