ABS brakes reduce fatalities 31% compared to same bike without...

Dirt_Dad

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#41
On a cool morning with cold tires I will often feel the ABS clicking before I make it to the bottom of my driveway. Since I've never crashed in my driveway with my non-ABS bikes I'm pretty sure I can still ride without ABS.

I'm certain I'm strong enough to drive a car without power steering, but why would I want to? We all rely on technology, and sometimes it fails. I bet Checkswrecks would have a pretty good idea of how many times a crash is due to technology vs human failure.
 
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#42
SPX said:
For the sake of discussion only, I ask..

So, you've been riding for 40 years. Does that mean you have 40 years of bad habits? Or do you have 1 year of experience 40 times?

In aviation, the field that I work in, the above questions commonly need to be asked. I think they do apply to motorcycle riding to some extent as well.
Nope, it is a legitimate question. I was merely responding to BGG or whatever on my lack of knowledge, who clearly does not understand why I said what I did.

As for myself, yup I had my fair of good and bad habits.

Good listed here. http://thoughtsoftheages.blogspot.com/2015/05/motorcycle-adv-riding-tips.html

I learned about the front brake on the street early on, and while I realize most people think if you grab a fistful of front brake its over, really unless you have reduced traction life is still good, there are other variables which can change that however, rain etc.

Bad? Few, Counter steering in corners was something it took me a while to learn.

Front brake on dirt, I learned about 13 years ago, Ironically enough after BGGs statement, mine was from a close friend who is a state champion motcross rider, so now like on the street, I rarely ever use the rear brake, except of course with the linked system. I did grow up riding off road primarily in the sand, so the front brake was your enemy. I stand by my statement, until people get decent with manipulating the front brake, the are far, far better off without it in reduced traction situations.
 

rem

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#43
An interesting and civil discussion, for the most part. I'll throw in my 2¢ worth, which is actually about $0.0003 Canadian. I am by no means a skilled rider. I embraced the activity late in life, well after my bones became brittle. But I don't think I "rely" on the electronics such as ABS. I try to avoid having them feel the need to present themselves. But I like to know they are there in the event that I do something stupid, or in the event of a "panic" situation. One that comes about very quickly, before I am mentally or even instinctively able to react. This has happened on a few occasions, and I'm glad that stuff was there. Saved my sorry old geriatric @$$ a few times. To each his own. To those competent and dedicated off-road types, I think it would be worthwhile to petition Yamaha to include a means to disable the ABS. However, as someone pointed out, I think it is only a matter of time before every bike on the planet will be required to have ABS, and other safety related stuff. Hard cheese, I guess. Let's be careful out there. R ::008::
 

pnelson

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#44
I've been riding since I got my license at 14 in Texas (where you were limited to 100cc at that age.) Now 44 years later, I'm still trying to unlearn some bad habits and enjoying the good ones. One bad habit was over use of the rear brake. I'm sure that comes from too much speed on forest (gravel) roads up here in Oregon where grabbing a bunch of front brake was a bad thing. Too much rear brake on paved roads or entering a turn can get you into trouble too though (as will too much front brake anywhere).

My Honda ST1100 was the first bike I had with ABS and linked brakes. I experimented some with it and realized how much braking I could get done with the front brake using ABS and the automatically proportioned rear brake. Knowing my tendency to use the rear brake too much, I decided to try to train myself to not institutionally stomp on it when I wanted to slow down. I'm still working on that as old habits are hard to break. <pun>

Oregon has an advanced riders course on a track where you get to practice braking at speed and even braking at speed during turns. Those of us with ABS brakes were encouraged to apply hard braking with the front brake and learn about how well these bikes with ABS would stop. I thought I knew what to expect but was still surprised at how fast the bike will stop without losing traction. We got to try it lap after lap after lap and I tried front only, both front and rear and rear only. It was fun and I learned a lot. Now I'm pretty good at keeping the front brake lever covered and it's my first go-to for stopping power. The course also helped me manage speed going into turns efficiently so as to not be caught with too much too late in the turn.

Off road, I'm amazed at being able to go down big hills while using the front ABS brake. On other bikes I'd be dragging a locked up rear wheel and dabbing the front in an effort to keep the bike from picking up too much speed, often with mixed success. With ABS, I can tap the rear and still drag a little bit if I need to but using the front with ABS down steep hills gives better stopping power and control. All the while, inside my head there's a red light and alarm telling me that I'm up on the pegs, staring down a huge dirt hill with poor traction and I'm using my front brake! But the bike just goes where I tell it to and I'm in control. I continue to be impressed by that.

As much as I think I'm a good rider and I'm prepared mentally for emergency maneuvering, I still think that when that deer or texting teen crosses into my path and I just don't have time to figure it all out, ABS will be a help vs not having it. As we get older our reaction times increase so I need all the help I can get. I don't see a downside to ABS and I'm looking forward to better ABS implementations on more kinds of motorcycles. My dark side would love to have a Honda Blackbird around to ride and at sub $4000 prices, they are easy to find now but that much power and speed without ABS or traction control help? Well, it might be better to wait a year or two and pickup a nice VFR1200 which from 2012 on has both ABS and traction control. After all, December is coming up and that means it's bike buying season. ;-)
 

WJBertrand

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#45
Dogdaze said:
::026:: I totally agree, only ever had ABS kick in once while riding, manhole cover in hard stop traffic and another time just to 'test' the ABS was working on a quite stretch of open road.
The Super - T (sorry just can't call it an S10 as it reminds me too much of a shitty little Chevy truck they use to make) is the third bike I've owned with ABS and the second with TCS after my ST1100 ABS-TCS and my ST1300 ABS. I've had the ABS engage a couple of times on each of them in non-panic situations and I always take that as an, I've screwed up moment on my part, and try to analyze & correct whatever I did wrong to cause the ABS to kick in. I do not agree with using the ABS as a routine part of daily riding or driving for that matter.

I've also had the ABS engage a couple of times on my Honda STs (so far not yet on the Tenere) where it was a genuine panic stop that was not my fault, or after analysis, there wasn't much I could have done. Things like when grandma bluehair pulling out suddenly causing a collision with the truck in front of me. In this case my following distance was appropriate but the collision stopped the truck short and the truck and some buildings completely blocked my view beyond the truck. That's where ABS saves the day, those completely unanticipated events that happen completely outside your control.
 

fredz43

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#46
WJBertrand said:
The Super - T (sorry just can't call it an S10 as it reminds me too much of a shitty little Chevy truck they use to make)
Hi Jeff,

I don't think I have ever heard any of the many Super Tenere owners I have met in the last 4 years actually call it an S10. We had this discussion in the early days of this forum and most of us simply find it is simpler to just type S10, rather than Super Tenere, Super T, etc. It is just like typing & instead of and. Me, I'm just lazy, so will usually type S10 on this forum where we all know what bike we are talking about . On other forums, I will type Yamaha Super Tenere, so everyone knows I am talking about the best motorcycle made, not a cheap Chevy truck. ;D

Back on topic, I have had 1 ST1100 ABS-TCS, 3 ST1300 ABS and 1 GL1800 ABS and I am a believer. The way I look at it, the ABS only activates when I screw up and would have otherwise locked up a wheel.
 

BaldKnob

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#47
I have trouble calling it Super... kinda pretentious, wouldn't you say? And I love the ABS on this thang!
 
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#51
Funny thing is I have only activated the ABS on the little dirt horse trail in my neighborhood. This is my first bike with ABS. I'm sure once I get off the pavement I will be activating it a lot more.

This is also the first bike I have owned that has Unified Braking. I have tried many times to shorten my braking distance and cannot do it when bypassing the Unified Braking (hitting the rear brake first bypasses the system). I always pass the mark by a considerable distance when compared to letting the computer do the work. IMO, Yamaha got this right. It's simply amazing to grab a handful of front brake and be able to stop safely. In reality almost all your braking is in the front anyway.


I'm pretty sure I could out brake the antilock system in the dirt. My buddy who has owned this bike since it first came out has told me there is no reason to turn off the antilock system off road. He is a well accomplished off road rider. The only challenge I see is trying to change direction using the rear brake. But on a 600+ pound bike I'll pass on that technique until I get used to it. At some point I will defeat the antilock system (on the dry lake) and see how good my "human braking ability" really is.
 
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Sierra1

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#52
....At some point I will defeat the antilock system (on the dry lake) and see how good my "human braking ability" really is.
I'm not saying YOU can't stop quicker/shorter than ABS. But, to me, that's only half the story. The biggest advantage, again, to me, is that when grandma pulls out in front of you....and stops....you grab the brakes, and take evasive measures....that wheel/tire, doesn't lock and wash out. It keeps turning, in the right direction, and allows you to slow, AND steer....at the same time. THAT's where the bacon saving comes in.

And, by-the-way, it MIGHT be possible to stop quicker than ABS....when you pick the time to hit the brakes. But, to me, ABS was not designed for perfect conditions; but for those "oh, shit" times, especially on wet roads. I know MY little pea brain can't react anywhere near as fast as the computer.
 
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#54
I'm not saying YOU can't stop quicker/shorter than ABS. But, to me, that's only half the story. The biggest advantage, again, to me, is that when grandma pulls out in front of you....and stops....you grab the brakes, and take evasive measures....that wheel/tire, doesn't lock and wash out. It keeps turning, in the right direction, and allows you to slow, AND steer....at the same time. THAT's where the bacon saving comes in.

And, by-the-way, it MIGHT be possible to stop quicker than ABS....when you pick the time to hit the brakes. But, to me, ABS was not designed for perfect conditions; but for those "oh, shit" times, especially on wet roads. I know MY little pea brain can't react anywhere near as fast as the computer.
This is very good point and sound advice!!
 
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