A few Oil FILTER Questions...

[hANNAbONE]

I just did some research. The Ph6017A FRAM is the same dimensions and specs as most Honda Car filters, only shorter. We sell filters here at work in the heavy trucking industry, and I have both a long and a short version of this on my shelf in Baldwin!!! Yeah, i know people will say "Who is Baldwin?" but Baldwin is one of the largest filter manufacturers in the world.
I am checking on case prices as I speak!!!
Baldwin B1402 (medium length) B1400 (short version like PH6017A) There is also a longer version B1431 (i doubt this would fit with a skid plate installed).

Jeff - with all respect, FRAM would be the last thing I'd put on any vehicle...car/MC/truck/name it.

YMMV

 

[fjr1300]

Check out the HIFLOFILTRO filters from Tucker Rocky. Excellant filters, and my dealer sells them to me for $5.00 a piece when I buy 2 or more. I use them on the BMW, FZ1, Ninja650, the ATV, and all three snowmobiles.

 

[~TABASCO~]

Jeff - with all respect, FRAM would be the last thing I'd put on any vehicle...car/MC/truck/name it.

YMMV

X2 on that one...... My thoughts have always been this... cheep filter $5.00..... great awesome filter, $12.00-$14.00.......... Its worth $7.00 over 3-5K miles of enjoyment I get from a motorcycle knowing im protecting a $14.000 machine the best I can........

Its always cracked me up with the oil and filter post over the many years.... I think if someone offered a $.50 filter, a lot of people would buy it.... Might be a coffee filter but people would use it, and then defend it......

 

[fjr1300]

Look at the construction of the HIFLOFILTRO and you would think you just pulled a Yamaha filter out of the box.

 

[colorider]

As I said before, none of the car filter mfgs say their filter meets or exceeds Yamaha's requirements for a motorcycle application. Call 'em up and ask. And even if the would, you would likely have to go to court to get them to pay for a repair.

- Mark

Many of the filter manufactures have motorcycle specific oil filters. I'm still saying, and perhaps I need to qualify it a bit - that as long as you are using the filter they specify as specific for your application - be it motorcycle, car, truck, ATV, whatever - if you have an oil related engine failure that is attributable to their filter - they are responsible.

 

[Kevhunts]

I'll trust the engineers who built my bike and go with a Yamaha filter. 8)
If that was not available, I wouldn't hesitate to use a HIFLOFILTRO brand filter.
That's my $0.02

 

[colorider]

I'll trust the engineers who built my bike and go with a Yamaha filter. 8)
If that was not available, I wouldn't hesitate to use a HIFLOFILTRO brand filter.
That's my $0.02

The thing is that there is about a 100% chance that Yamaha did not manufacture the filter with their name on it. A few years ago, Honda changed some of the OEM filters to a new source (still said "Honda" on the side). The source was Fram.

As for HiFlo. I too have used them off and on for many years on many different bikes. I would not hesitate to use them on my SuperT. I would also not hesitate to use many other filters on the market as long as they are specified by the manufacturer as the correct filter for the application. Yes, some are better than others.

 

[HoebSTer]

I roriginally took the info from the Europeans and the part number they provided which was xxxxxxx!!! The said it was the same as some of the common m/c filters we use here in the states such as Fram PH6017A. I directly crossed over the number to get the info I passed along so far. I am thinking this makes it a DIRECT cross with proper applications listed, even though filter manufacturers only print new catalogs once a year at best. So, this is how i came up with my info!!!

 

[jajpko]

X2 on that one...... My thoughts have always been this... cheep filter $5.00..... great awesome filter, $12.00-$14.00.......... Its worth $7.00 over 3-5K miles of enjoyment I get from a motorcycle knowing im protecting a $14.000 machine the best I can........

Its always cracked me up with the oil and filter post over the many years.... I think if someone offered a $.50 filter, a lot of people would buy it.... Might be a coffee filter but people would use it, and then defend it......

That is funny.. ) )

 

[colorider]

X2 on that one...... My thoughts have always been this... cheep filter $5.00..... great awesome filter, $12.00-$14.00.......... Its worth $7.00 over 3-5K miles of enjoyment I get from a motorcycle knowing im protecting a $14.000 machine the best I can........

The problem is that there is nothing hard and fast that says the $12-$14 filter DOES protect your engine any better than the $5 filter. Price does not always = quality in many components.

 

[Kevhunts]

I have some hypothetical questions.

If you use a brand "X" oil filter and suffer a oil filter related engine failure, how will this effect your warranty? Will the brand "X" manufacturer take the Yamaha dealer's word that the filter was at fault? If they agree to cover the repair cost, (after they have examined the defective filter) , how long do you think the whole process would take? Would it drag out? Is there a chance you might need a lawyer?

Now if you used a Yamaha oil filter and suffered the same type of failure, do you think the process would generally go a lot smoother?

 

[jajpko]

I have some hypothetical questions.

If you use a brand "X" oil filter and suffer a oil filter related engine failure, how will this effect your warranty? Will the brand "X" manufacturer take the Yamaha dealer's word that the filter was at fault? If they agree to cover the repair cost, (after they have examined the defective filter) , how long do you think the whole process would take? Would it drag out? Is there a chance you might need a lawyer?

Now if you used a Yamaha oil filter and suffered the same type of failure, do you think the process would generally go a lot smoother?

Just my opinion, I would not want to go to court in a battle with any corp. If the x filter was lacking in any way, (not the same filter media, not the same amount of media, not the same relief pressure, and or, not the same size can.
I believe you would lose the case on any of those items, except the size can. That was a joke.

If I were using the Yammy flter, I am sure it would go smoother. However they would still check the oil and maintenance records.
Like I said, just my thoughts and ymmv..

 

[Checkswrecks]

Just my opinion, I would not want to go to court in a battle with any corp. If the x filter was lacking in any way, (not the same filter media, not the same amount of media, not the same relief pressure, and or, not the same size can.
I believe you would lose the case on any of those items, except the size can. That was a joke.

If I were using the Yammy flter, I am sure it would go smoother. However they would still check the oil and maintenance records.
Like I said, just my thoughts and ymmv..

First, the Brand X filter company is only liable for the replacement of their product, in other words their filter. Read the fine print on almost any parts box and you'll see that you agreed to these terms by buying their product. Their replacement will come AFTER you have PROVEN it was defective, not mis-installed, mis-handled, overstressed, etc. Good luck getting your $5-$10 filter, but you can do it.


As for any motor company, the first thing to happen will be at the dealer, when they document taking off a non-Yamaha filter. From that point, it will be up to YOU to prove that what you installed met or surpassed every Yamaha technical requirement for that part. I've helped people do it successfully and I've helped companies beat these.


btw - I've seen Yamaha FAR more often give benefit to the customer, as compared to at least one competitor, which will fight to the death once a non-OEM part is found. What makes this a real bitch to win is that the vehicle maker is under no requirement to let you or anybody else know what the requirements are for their parts, as you are asking for proprietary product information. And you need those requirements to compare against.


Bottom line is that the Yamaha filter probably is not as good as some of the aftermarket ones and will probably cost more. But it's a darned good idea to use one anyway, at LEAST through your warranty period and then some.

 

[markjenn]

First, the Brand X filter company is only liable for the replacement of their product, in other words their filter. Read the fine print on almost any parts box and you'll see that you agreed to these terms by buying their product. Their replacement will come AFTER you have PROVEN it was defective, not mis-installed, mis-handled, overstressed, etc. Good luck getting your $5-$10 filter, but you can do it....

This is a key point. Unless they've explicitly provided a warranty for damages consequential to the failure of their product, a filter mfg will limit their warranty to simply replacing a defective filter. So if you were trying to hold them liable for engine damage that is a consequence of a failure, you'd be in a much grayer area of the law involving "expressed warranty in advertising", "implied warranty" or "warranty of merchantability". This is a much tougher case to legally prove and is much more dependent on the variances in state law. And any resolution that would require you to sue would essentially make this path impractical from a time and cost standpoint.

This discussion reminds me of the ones that often occur around Magnuson Moss Warranty Act. While this law helps consumers, the reality of the situation is that you'll have a broken motorcycle, and mfg will be saying they won't cover it. Possession is 9/10ths of the law and at this point, you're the one having to jump through hoops trying to get resolution while you either pay out of pocket to fix the bike or let it sit indefinitely while you pursue legal remedies. Jumping up and down on your soapbox exclaiming, "You're liable...", doesn't get anyone to fix your bike.

- Mark

 

[SisuTen]

Simple.......check the website for warranty info. Here's one for Purolator.

"Purolator Products Limited Warranty
Purolator filters are warranted to be free from manufacturer’s defects
in material, workmanship or design in accordance with the terms and
conditions described below.
New car warranties remain in effect when Purolator filters are used in
accordance to the engine manufacturer’s change intervals.
In the event of an engine failure directly caused by a defective Purolator
filter, which was properly installed and changed following the engine
manufacturer’s recommended service intervals and was in accord with
current Purolator catalog recommendations, Purolator warrants that it
will pay for the repair or, if necessary, replacement of an engine or other
parts damaged as a result of any defect in any of our filters.
Claims for engine repairs provided under this warranty must be
submitted within 30 days after discovery of damage. Purolator Technical
Services Department reserves the right to examine the engine and filter
to determine the amount of damage and whether it was caused by a
defective Purolator filter.
This warranty DOES NOT COVER any product that has been subjected
to misuse, neglect, negligence or accident, or that has been improperly
maintained, operated or installed. The warranty DOES NOT APPLY to
any damage to the product that is the result of rust or corrosion.
THIS WARRANTY IS IN LIEU OF ALL OTHER WARRANTIES
EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE IMPLIED WARRANTY
OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR
PURPOSE WHICH ARE EXPRESSLY EXCLUDED. PUROLATOR
SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL
DAMAGES RESULTING FROM OR CAUSED BY THE USE,
OPERATION, FAILURE OR DEFECT OF ANY PUROLATOR FILTER.
This warranty gives you specific legal rights. You many also have other
rights which vary from state to state."

Pretty explicit regarding engine repair or replacement. Sure, you need to present proof, but engine replacement is pretty pricy, if I recall right. They have the right to verify what happened.

I recommend going to the CalSci site, http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Filters.html#OilFilters Read up and do your own homework.

Warranties are a double edged sword. Either your product is so poor you need one (and soon go out of business) or it's so good you don't. It ultimately boils down to reputation.

Make your most educated choice and live with the outcome.

Oil filter discussions always go this way and usually result in unnecessary anxiety.

Don't Worry, Be Smart (and Happy)...that's what riding is all about.

S-Ten

 

[colorider]

Thanks Paul for posting the info. I actually emailed Purolator to ask specifically about motorcycles, since they have motorcycle specific filter, but have not received a response yet.

 

[HoebSTer]

Wow, all of this technical information on warranty!!!! Sounds like all of the aftermarket filters are bad to use and people are ignorant by using them!!!!! Geez, what where those hundreds of thousands of people thinking!!!! They too are wondering how Full Syntehtic Oil will be bad for a wet-clutch application as they turned over 100, 200, or sometimes 300k miles on motorcycles!!! Maybe they missed the fine print!!!!
Where did i put my glasses????

 

[markjenn]

Wow, all of this technical information on warranty!!!! Sounds like all of the aftermarket filters are bad to use and people are ignorant by using them!!!!! Geez, what where those hundreds of thousands of people thinking!!!! They too are wondering how Full Syntehtic Oil will be bad for a wet-clutch application as they turned over 100, 200, or sometimes 300k miles on motorcycles!!! Maybe they missed the fine print!!!!
Where did i put my glasses????

Keep in mind this is a discussion about the technical details of warranty coverage, not whether OEM products, in general, are better than aftermarket or whether you can sub car parts for motorcycle applications. Rider who have "turned over 300K miles" aren't typically under warranty and this discussion has no bearing whatsoever on what they should use.

- Mark

 

[SisuTen]

Thanks Paul for posting the info. I actually emailed Purolator to ask specifically about motorcycles, since they have motorcycle specific filter, but have not received a response yet.

Rod,

I used Purolator as an example of how filter companies warranty their products. While I can't say because I haven't checked each and every company, I suspect most use the same approach. To limit a filter warranty to the price of a filter replacement seems a bit short sighted, considering the possibilities as a result of failure in such a critical engine system. It leads me to believe quality control for oil filters approaches that of heart pacemakers. I truly do not worry about filters, since I don't go cheap and always research what I buy, everything I buy.

I just wanted to try to put members minds at ease. The likelihood of disaster is very remote "IF" you treat your machine like your newborn child and give it the best. Calsci put a lot of effort into their research and I trust them. Pre-litigating things like oil filters simply stirs people up over nothing. No one needs the extra stress.

I have used Purolator One filters for years and never had an issue. I'll continue using them and if an issue comes up, which seems highly unlikely, I'll deal with it at that time.

Paul

 

[CraigM]

I doubt there is technically much difference between the oil filters but for the difference of a few quid I'd rather be comfortable that should anything happen there could be no quible.

On the oil front my dealer (in the UK) was happy to put an oil other than yamlube in at its service. He also said that it wasn't necessary to have a fully synthetic oil as its not a high reving sports engine. We went for a semi synthetic.