2018 R1200GSA back to Super Tenere

robson

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Nothing against them, I kinda like the sound they make when you start them. I could have afforded any bike, wife kept egging me on to a GS. But I hate the idea of the service costs, plus the possibility the bike could spend serious time in a service bay, possibly when I'd rather be riding. .
that's good point, being able to afford buying GS is not the end of the story - maintaining it is the other what consist of full package.
That I couldn't not justify at my income level to get a bike as expensive as my car - makes no sense, but if I sh@#$i money sure, why not
have such toy. Benefits are bike is more fun to ride and don't lose value as quickly as ST. BMW is very easy to sell.
 

WJBertrand

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exactly, cost is the main factor not the reliability etc as some trying to cheat themselves.
If price were the same many would get GS no question asked, be honest at least to yourself...
If I'm being honest with myself, neither of those statements would apply to me, can't speak for others. My most important quality in any product is reliability. I will gladly sacrifice some features and performance in exchange for reliability. I would wager that a lot of folks are actually attracted to and buy BMWs precisely because they are more expensive. They believe they are getting a measure of exclusivity or prestige. BMW would lose that edge if they were selling at Japanese bike prices. I've never bought anything to impress anyone but myself.
 

Edino

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To each their own but I'm happy with my S10 even though it has some shortcomings like all bikes.

Here is a funny story. :) Came from a V-Strom 650. The choices when trading it was S10, R1200GS and 1190 adv. Skipped the KTM because of the insane power. First I went to the Yamaha dealer and took a test ride on the S10 for a couple of hours. Liked it a lot. Some days later I went to the BMW dealer to test ride the R1200GSA. Rode it for an hour or so. Came back to the dealer and the sales rep asked me how i liked the bike. Gave him an honest answer based on my ride - "It's a good bike but I don't find it better then the Super Tenere". He literally turned red in his face and walked to his office without any further comments. :D Bought the S10 and I don't look back.

Not bashing BMW as a trade mark. I have a BMW car and love it!
 

eemsreno

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All it would take is to have my wife way out in nomans land and have a failed final drive. No thank you!
Reliability is way more important than thinking you look cool at Starbucks.
 

Sierra1

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....If price were the same many would get GS no question asked, be honest at least to yourself...
Negative Ghostrider. On one of these threads I advised that before I actually "lived" with a Beemer, long term, I was willing to pay the extra $$$$ for a GS. Because, initially, I THOUGHT the Beemer was worth the extra investment. BUT, once I realized that they weren't, I wouldn't buy one if it was CHEAPER than a Tenere. I realize/admit that there are plenty of Beemers that have never failed, and I don't mean any disrespect to the people that love theirs; but two of the three BMWs we had broke the drive shafts...more than once.
 

eemsreno

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Once some friends of ours had some BMW and we traded bikes for a ride.
After about 20 miles my wife said "you better trade back quick or I'll never ride again.
She has never liked BMW's after that.
They traded for some new bigger better RT1100 boxer [I think that's what it was] and rode to our house to go on a ride, their trany went out right when they got 2 blocks from our house. I put them on my old Xs1100 so they could ride, After the ride they said our old backup bike was nicer than their new bike.
They switch to a wing not long after that.
 

Karl

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I really liked my R1150GSA, it got me hooked on this type of bike, I would like to still have it. It never let me down and I enjoyed working on it.

One thing I do notice is that most new generation BMW GS riders tend to be try hard lawyer/accountant types and where I live, they are quite common, almost like blah, blah, blah just another GS..... The Super Tenere is more of an old school bike for people with a lot less pretension about their riding and is actually quite rare to see one.
 

greg the pole

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Ok thanks for your insight on the AT vs. the Tenere.
I shall find out for myself in about three months.
SHUMBA

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errmm...AT is lighter but less powerful than the ST. Standard tune they are about the same. AT better off road, but quite good on road.
 

greg the pole

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I sold a 2011 S10 for a 2016 Africa Twin DCT. Rode it for 2 years and experienced a lot of problems with it that convinced me to dump it and go back to an S10. This time I got a Gen II 2015 ES and love it.

As far as performance goes, the AT feels quite a bit lighter and more nimble than the S10. But the S10 has much better wind protection and handles loads (for example camping gear) way better than the AT. With a weekend's worth of camping gear on it the Honda would get really light in the front and actually get head shake going around corners. I think Honda put too much emphasis on making it handle quickly with the 21" front wheel at the expense of stability. The S10 is rock solid no matter how much of a load you put on it. The AT DCT hauls the coals pretty quickly when you twist the wrist as it shifts quickly to stay on the boil,, but the S10 is a lot gruntier. The first thing you should do, though, is get your ECU flashed by AVC. It will really make a good motor great.

The AT does have a big advantage on dirt due to the lighter weight, longer stroke suspension and 21" wheel. But for bouncing down dirt roads the S10 is fine....


Finally, the overall build quality of the S10 is far better than the Honda, the traction control works better, the cruise control is priceless on longer trips and the tubeless wheels are much better than the cheap dirt bike wheels the AT comes with.
I'm not sure I agree with all of the above.
Your DCT did not treat you well, and more importantly Honda Japan showed its real colors. Too bad.
The OEM suspension sucks. The rear shock valving sucks. Load the rear, front becomes light/shaky.
The tenere's OEM shock is slighlty better, but shows its short comings when pushed. My preload collar leaked in the 1st 10k.
Both OEM shocks did not last long on either bike for me.
Valving on both forks is just ok/
TC is better on the AT. On the fly option seals it. I hated stopping and having to hold it for 2 seconds on the ST before getting going.
AT pummels the ST off road. Ground clearance and bigger hoops do it. If it's not your bag, then you're good to go!
When the suspension is right on the AT, it rails pavement and corrects mid corner fuck ups like it's no one's business.

Canadian STs (1st or 2nd gen) cannot get flashed by Anthony last time I checked. USA spec Yamaha's only. Email to make sure.

Built quality is better on the tenere. Mine was showroom fresh after 90k km. AT has corners cut. Not sure it will look as good as the ST.

AT is a keeper for what I needed it. Loved my ST, but wouldn't go back.
 

robson

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Finally, the overall build quality of the S10 is far better than the Honda, the traction control works better, the cruise control is priceless on longer trips and the tubeless wheels are much better than the cheap dirt bike wheels the AT comes with.
that's definitely true, honda went downhill recently with quality.
 

SHUMBA

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I'm not sure I agree with all of the above.
Your DCT did not treat you well, and more importantly Honda Japan showed its real colors. Too bad.
The OEM suspension sucks. The rear shock valving sucks. Load the rear, front becomes light/shaky.
The tenere's OEM shock is slighlty better, but shows its short comings when pushed. My preload collar leaked in the 1st 10k.
Both OEM shocks did not last long on either bike for me.
Valving on both forks is just ok/
TC is better on the AT. On the fly option seals it. I hated stopping and having to hold it for 2 seconds on the ST before getting going.
AT pummels the ST off road. Ground clearance and bigger hoops do it. If it's not your bag, then you're good to go!
When the suspension is right on the AT, it rails pavement and corrects mid corner fuck ups like it's no one's business.

Canadian STs (1st or 2nd gen) cannot get flashed by Anthony last time I checked. USA spec Yamaha's only. Email to make sure.

Built quality is better on the tenere. Mine was showroom fresh after 90k km. AT has corners cut. Not sure it will look as good as the ST.

AT is a keeper for what I needed it. Loved my ST, but wouldn't go back.
Now that's what I call a good review comparing the Africa Twin and the Super Tenere.
Grateful for the insight.
I was not an off roader so the Tenere will likely be better for me.
Thanks again
SHUMBA

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twinrider

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TC is better on the AT. On the fly option seals it. I hated stopping and having to hold it for 2 seconds on the ST before getting going.
AT pummels the ST off road. Ground clearance and bigger hoops do it. If it's not your bag, then you're good to go!
When the suspension is right on the AT, it rails pavement and corrects mid corner fuck ups like it's no one's business.

Canadian STs (1st or 2nd gen) cannot get flashed by Anthony last time I checked. USA spec Yamaha's only. Email to make sure.

Built quality is better on the tenere. Mine was showroom fresh after 90k km. AT has corners cut. Not sure it will look as good as the ST.

AT is a keeper for what I needed it. Loved my ST, but wouldn't go back.
I agree, if one's main thrust of riding is dirt, the AT is a much better choice, and being able to turn off the TC instantly is a big plus on dirt. That said, I find on tarmac the S10's TC works much better. My AT's TC in default setting would kick in all the time when I gunned it in first gear even on dry tarmac, not to mention wet, and it was extremely disruptive. My S10's default TC hardly ever kicks in and is pretty seamless when it does.

The AT was fun as a solo road bike, being light and flickable, and the DCT was a hoot when it worked. But the S10's better wind protection, shaft drive, cruise control, electronic suspension and tubeless wheels still make it a better choice for someone who rides mostly tarmac imo. The electronic suspension works great without any mods and is much better than the stock AT's suspension at adjusting to a variety of loads.

Post up when you try the new Scrambler 1200XE, I want to hear what you think of it on dirt. Given that it's weight and suspension travel is similar to the AT but the component specs are much higher, it might be better than the AT on dirt and better on the road as well with that 1200 motor. :)
 
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trimannn

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central texas
You say why not - I have to ask why?
Unless you had +100.000 miles on the 2015, it seems to me that you just spend money on getting what you already got :confused:
Cuz you only go around once, I had the cash, I wanted a new one so why not. Can still trade this one in a few yrs for a new one and still have spent less than one GS.

It also had 36000 and im planning on Tuk this yr so I thought better to sell with 36000 than almost 50000
 

twinrider

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I am in the process of returning to an ADV bike after owning a KTM 990. Rode (on road) both a ST and GS and I am leaning towards the ST mainly due to reliability and cost of maintenance. My question to you is, do you see big differences between the GS and ST in the dirt? Not a hard core off rider myself, but I enjoy dirt riding a lot. Some context, I have to ride at least 150 miles to get nice dirt.
I rode a lot of dirt in 2013 on my Gen 1 S10 with a friend who owned a new GS. He loves the bike but isn't a fan of how the Telelever works on dirt (tends to plow). He preferred my S10 in that respect.
 

greg the pole

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I agree, if one's main thrust of riding is dirt, the AT is a much better choice, and being able to turn off the TC instantly is a big plus on dirt. That said, I find on tarmac the S10's TC works much better. My AT's TC in default setting would kick in all the time when I gunned it in first gear even on dry tarmac, not to mention wet, and it was extremely disruptive. My S10's default TC hardly ever kicks in and is pretty seamless when it does.

The AT was fun as a solo road bike, being light and flickable, and the DCT was a hoot when it worked. But the S10's better wind protection, shaft drive, cruise control, electronic suspension and tubeless wheels still make it a better choice for someone who rides mostly tarmac imo. The electronic suspension works great without any mods and is much better than the stock AT's suspension at adjusting to a variety of loads.

Post up when you try the new Scrambler 1200XE, I want to hear what you think of it on dirt. Given that it's weight and suspension travel is similar to the AT but the component specs are much higher, it might be better than the AT on dirt and better on the road as well with that 1200 motor. :)
Bang on!
The AT is better in the rough stuff, and rough around the corners (read: less creature comforts)
ST has a big upper hand in creature comforts as well as standard features. The 2nd gen is a fantastic bike, and would likely be my go to as a long distance tourer, if I could justify owning more road bikes (really can't).
With the TC, my ST stayed in 2..after I held the button there...but If I wanted to get ca-raaaazy had to again wait and turn off the TC.
The AT stays in 1, with the handy TC memory gizmo. The original setting of reverting to highest TC is dumb. Now if I come around the corner, and it's tricky...simply hold the TC down and presto! NO TC!.

I don't think I'll ever swing a leg over a triumph. The local triumph stealer rarely grants test rides. Totally not my kind of bike either.
My AT is plenty high spec now...Ohlins, Tractive...good to go. That said, my visa is still smoldering.
 
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