140/80-17

[EricV]

https://advrider.com/f/threads/wtf-heidenau.1326495/

Two tires. 0718 code and another new tire date unknown.

Read this the other day and just happened to be going to shop and saw a delaminated motorcycle tire on side of exit ramp. Can't imagine what the hell that must have been like at 75 mph?

Color me un-impressed. Mr. Going back to TKC-80s guy sounds a lot like a tire abuser and never says what pressure he's running. 2k on the tire, but corners are rounding off... Tire spinner. But low pressure, a hard road run followed by off road abuse. No way to really know what happened or for sure what caused or pre-dated the failure.

Did anyone notice that tire has no center rib? That was added around 2014 on that size. That tire has been sitting around for a WHILE. The older versions were prone to faster wear, but I've not experienced that type of failure on the 140 or 150 17" sizes. Both went to Alaska and had a hard 8k trip with the 140 being shot at the end and the 150 going another 2k+ before wearing out to the wear bars.

Second guy on the GS... "I put a new one every year" LOL, yeah, ok bud. No center rib on that, and it should be a 170 tire. LINK My guess is that second tire is not even close to the correct size and not the date code he claims.

Post up any actual, first hand experience you have. Otherwise, I don't see a reason to pan a tire when you don't actually have experience with it.

BTW, I spent 20 years working for an OEM. I know a lot about how they think and the design/development process and how marketing can kill a product despite the best efforts of the engineers. I also know the manuals are written before the production bike is actually finished! The spec on the tire was decided on paper before they had more than a couple of actual R&D bikes to ride.

So bow deeply. And maybe stop believing every post you read, here and anywhere else. (tongue in cheek, says I)

 

[Longdog Cymru]

So longdog who are these brilliant people you speak of that know what they're talking about. Are they one's that built the S10 headlight wiring harness and had to replace thousand that either burnt up or were about to? Are they same brains that took two years to figure out the S10 had a faulty clutch basket? Or what about the cam chain tensioners, if they're so damn smart how did they screw that up the first time around? Then there's the main wiring harness that it took them six years to figure out was a bad design.

As far as the clutch basket screw up, some of the guys on here that you were dissing had the clutch basket failure figured out before Yamaha did and were working on a new design.

So, you seem to have established that the S10 is just a great big sack of poo........ It makes me wonder why you are riding one, or are you?

 

[Longdog Cymru]

Well then, Longdog, if you knew your knowledge wasn't sufficient to comment intelligently on the subject, why'd you waste your time? Were you getting bored waiting for Brexit? I feel compelled to ask you how your training at RADA is going, because with as much melodrama as you threw into your post, surely you're at the head of your class.

Touched a nerve did I? LOL

 

[OldRider]

So, you seem to have established that the S10 is just a great big sack of poo........ It makes me wonder why you are riding one, or are you?

No sir, I own an S10 and it is a very good machine. What I have established is that engineers don't always get it correct the first time and you really don't have a clue what you're talking about

 

[Bart]

It may be a good idea to check the tyre manufacturers recommendations regarding rim widths, most tyres have a range to work with.

 

[Longdog Cymru]

No sir, I own an S10 and it is a very good machine. What I have established is that engineers don't always get it correct the first time and you really don't have a clue what you're talking about

OK, so you go ahead and fit your car tyres and other non-standard, unapproved round black things, hey! they’re all the same aren’t they? It’s your neck on the line after all. Me? Well I’d just as soon play it safe and listen to the people who REALLY know what they are talking about, in this case, Yamaha.

I find it incredibly ironic that in one breath you have the audacity to tell me that I don’t have a clue what I am talking about, and yet after you reel off a list of faults with the S10, you proclaim that it is a very good machine. No doubt, Yamaha turned to you to sort out the whole list of issues didn’t they?

Anyhow, back to the black round things, don’t you find it a little strange that all of the tyre companies don’t agree with you and your friends? I guess your response is that they are trying to make money off your back, hmmm..... dumb argument really! Still, I knew which way this was heading as soon as I started typing, I ignored the first rule of Internet forums, “never get into an argument with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience”.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Kids - The guy asked a question and you're on the cutting edge of personal attacks which can result in the pruning shears and time out. The only reason I'm not already trimming is I don't have the time right now.

Strong message may follow and some won't like it.

- Mod

 

[RonH]

140/80 is virtually the exact same as a 150/70 in diameter and works fine and to me looks better as well. Everyone wants wide tires, so the look of a 150/70 from the factory is what riders want more than a narrower tire, so Yamaha supplies the 150/70. Those that appreciate the looks and function of a narrower tire can opt for a 140/80. I don't like the wide tires and debated going 140/80 myself.

 

[kjole]

I've run 10 sets of K60s on my Super Ten, all since 2012. Failures? Lately? You're talking about 2012/13 era. Changes were made. Got links if you have seen recent stuff?

As for the cracking on GPS Tractionators, it does not cause a failure unless you're doing serious tire spinning. Lots of Shinko lug cracking reported in the past too. Mostly a non-issue there as well. Moto Z has changed some of their recommendations on tires sizes on some bikes too. The wife's GSA with a GPS tire has cracks. They haven't really changed in the last 5k miles of mostly road use. Moto Z does not recommend the 170 version for that bike, instead suggesting the 150. They feel, for their tire, the 170 is too wide a tire for that rim width. I've not run the GPS on my Super Ten. And have another set of tires to wear out waiting in the garage, so won't get to try them for a while yet. Still, based upon my direct experience with them on my wife's GSA and the conversations with Moto Z, I would not hesitate to use them and likely will in the future.

Lots of factors go into these tires when they are made. I worked at a Goodyear factory that built car/atv/implement/tractor and it all depends on the receipt that day. A tire builder having a bad day, or even the lab tech testing the compound can put into much foreign material or rubber from rejected tires and alter the compound. Its actually quite a science. Not to mention the builder himself, the cure operator leaving it in the mould too long.

The other factor is temperature of the area you are riding in...….Arizona USA tires will not last as long as Canadian usage. Air pressure how often you test them and obviously how you ride.

 

[ballisticexchris]

I don’t get it!

A manufacturer builds a machine, be it a car or a motorcycle, tests the machine and fits the appropriate tyres for the use of that machine and yet people want to fit non-standard size, non-approved tyres which can affect your road worthiness and insurance and ultimately your safety.

Why, after spending a considerable amount of money on your vehicle of choice would you compromise yourself? Just to save a few £s/$s/€s!

Smart thinking Longdog! I also only feel comfortable running the recommended tires on this bike. All I had to do is take a look at how close the rear tire sidewall is to the brake arm. When I was younger I liked to run the fat tires on my dirt bikes. A few ripped off knobs and paddles taught me to stick with the stock size.

Here is a typical fat tire fail:

 

[RCinNC]

And yet, we have a whole lot of motorsports that exist primarily because people modified the original concept of an engineer so the vehicle could do something different. There'd be no NHRA, there'd be no NASCAR, there'd be no Pro Stock drag racing, there'd be no drag bikes, no motocross riding...there wouldn't even be mountain bikes. None of those things were created by engineers at Ford or GM or Honda or Trek...they were created by guys outside the original manufacturer, because they saw the potential for something beyond the parameters used by original engineers. There'd be no VooDoo racing plane, because no engineer in 1940 at NAA ever envisioned a P51 Mustang built during WWII being turned into a 500mph+ racing plane that won three world championships...in the 21st century. The concept that an engineer's original idea is the only workable and safe way for something to be done flies in the face of reason; if you have that outlook, and you're using any part on your bike like non OEM luggage racks, or Galfer branded rotors, EBC branded brake pads, non OEM electrics, LED lights instead of halogen, etc, then you're wrong. NONE of those parts were tested by engineers at Yamaha with your motorcycle to see what effects they might have, yet an entire industry has grown up around businesses whose sole purpose is to supply parts that were never designed or made by Yamaha. If you have a non OEM tire on your bike like a Mitas, that has to come off too; no Yamaha ever came from the factory with a Mitas tire. It doesn't matter if it's the same size; by the reasoning on display here, the bike was never tested with that specific tire, and since there are individual variations in tire sizes even when the tires are nominally the same measurement, you shouldn't use anything other than the exact tire your bike came with. Anyone who has ever rode a V-Strom knows that there are some big block front tires that, regardless of the fact that they're the correct size, won't fit on the front of a V-Strom without a fender kit.

If there's a coherent argument to make about why not to use a 140/80-17 tire on the S10 more substantive than "the original engineers didn't design it that way and they're smarter than everyone else", and that doesn't involve a lot of hyperbole and personal invective, then I'd like to hear it. Not to argue with it, but to have an answer. I started following this thread for that very reason; to see if someone had done it, and what their experiences were, good and bad.

 

[ballisticexchris]

If there's a coherent argument to make about why not to use a 140/80-17 tire on the S10 more substantive than "the original engineers didn't design it that way and they're smarter than everyone else", and that doesn't involve a lot of hyperbole and personal invective, then I'd like to hear it.

Without ever trying it, my argument would be you are fitting a narrower tire on a wider rim. This will flatten out the tread causing you to run out of tread at full lean. It's just simple physics. For the average guy who is a mellow rider, you might not notice it. I have no personal experience other than trying out fat tires on narrow rims. With those you run out of lean before getting to the edge of the tread.

 

[RCinNC]

I agree that it's always preferable to go with the manufacturer's recommendation for tire sizes. That's what I've always done, because it requires no extra research on what tire size to choose. But if someone raises the question about whether another tire size will fit, then I listen to the responses, because options are always awesome. As of right now, the original Mitas E07 is no longer available in the 150/70-17, but you can still get it in the 140/80-17 size as a 69T tire. That's 716 pounds and 118 mph, certainly within the acceptable load and speed rating. So for a lot of long distance cross country riders (of which I'm one), whether or not a 140/80-17 could be safely be mounted on a 17" x MT4.00 rim IS a relevant question.

I don't know if the "MT4.00" size corresponds to a 4" wide rim; the S10 rear certainly seems a lot wider than that from inner flange to inner flange. But I do see on various on line sizing charts that there are crossovers on certain rim sizes where a 140 and a 150 tire are acceptable. I can't seem to find any info on whether or not that MT4.00 measurement corresponds to the measurements in those size charts. Regarding Chris' idea that the extra width of the S10 rim would substantially change the cross section of a 140 tire to the point it lost usable tread, I don't think it's that obvious. Even if there was a half inch difference between the S10 rim and a rim that's spec'd for a 140 tire, would the additional quarter inch that each sidewall had to move in order to seat the tire really have that much affect on the profile, to the point you lose usable tread area?

If it's unsafe, then it would be good to know why, from someone who actually has the qualifications to say why it's unsafe. Or even if someone has the actual rear wheel measurements for the S10 and can definitively say if there's a range of tire sizes that are compatible with that rim. From my limited research, it seems like there's more to it than "one rim size/one tire".

 

[ballisticexchris]

Here is an interesting comparison:

Actually not much of a difference



https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?tires=150-70r17-140-80r17

 

[ballisticexchris]

FWIW, Mitas still has the Dakar E-10 tires in a 150/70x17 size. So problem solved for the guys that like the Mitas brand. I might add this is a way better overall tire than the E07. Nice big fat knobby’s for lots of traction, durable, and super long life. You should get well over 2000 miles on a set of these no problem.

 

[RCinNC]

I'm afraid 2000 miles wouldn't even put them in my wheelhouse. I had almost 10 thousand on my set of E07's, and other guys who used them can claim some higher miles.

 

[Pdrhound]

FWIW, Mitas still has the Dakar E-10 tires in a 150/70x17 size. So problem solved for the guys that like the Mitas brand. I might add this is a way better overall tire than the E07. Nice big fat knobby’s for lots of traction, durable, and super long life. You should get well over 2000 miles on a set of these no problem.

2000 miles? Thats going to be 4 sets for my trip........

Always looking for dirt, but campung is my main reason for dirt in the wet PNW, far enough off the pavement to find camping thats not 80 dollars a night. In Colorado and New Mexico we never, never never pay to camp, so it is a bitter pill to swallow

The k60 that died was 2018 tire.

There are a lot of great k60 reviews but given a choice I would have ran the e07 forever....

Knobbies for 7000 miles.......ummmm, no

 

[Tombstone]

My K-60 rear lasted 15,000 miles. No cracks etc. I have my second one on now.

 

[shredmeister]

"I just knew that as soon as I pressed the very first key of my previous post that the full weight of American knowledge would descend on me, but what the heck, you guys also voted for Trump! LOL "

It's called WINNING!!!!

 

[SkunkWorks]

I'll let you guys know in about a month or so.
I'm planning on running a 140/80-17 E07-Dakar on the rear.
Recommended rim sizes for that tire are listed as 2.75-4.00
It has the same 69T load/speed rating as the 150/70-17
I see absolutely no issues with doing so.