Starting problems

eheal6520

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
56
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Ok I retried my turn by hand compression check with both cams removed, the results were the same. Nothing in #1 and 20psi in #2. It's a royal pain to do and keep the cam chain from jamming up but I got it done. So it looks like a valve issue. My next step was to remove the head and check them but apparently the head bolts were put on by Superman, Ironman and the Hulk. I did manage to ruin a 3/8" ratchet trying. You would think it wouldn't be that bad given the torque specs are not that high.
1630193449402.png
 

eheal6520

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
56
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Oh and I rechecked the clearance on .051 exhaust valve and it was the same. When I removed the cams I checked out the shims and they are..
Exhaust #1-205, 205, #2-202, 202
Intake #1-211, 211, #2-209, 208 (pretty sure, was in upside down, could be 203)

I thought maybe the shim on the .051 exhaust valve might be seated badly but I checked everything and put the lifter back on and it read the same. Things that make you go hummmmm.......
 

cyclemike4

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
815
Location
ky
Hey eheal6520. Sorry to hear of the trouble you are having. I need my bike and it has to run every single day. Having it down really sucks. Just my thought on this but I also know I am not in your shop looking at your bike so it may not be good advise. If that were my bike I may try to get a bore scope and just look to see if a valve had hit a piston. If all looks normal I would shim the one valve that is a bit tight and start it. the timing chain jump was the original issue that caused the no start situation. You have it back in place. If the valves are opening and closing smooth they are not bent. if they were bent you would have a huge valve clearance gap. Just my thoughts. But of course it isn't my bike and I am not there to see what you see. Good luck.
 

holligl

Find the road less traveled...
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
2,212
Location
IL/AZ
I would agree on scoping, but if there is no compression with the cams removed that one valve (or something else worse) is leaking. Your original shims are pretty standard for a new build. Looks like you need a 185 shim (check the math) for the worst valve, but if it has to be replaced...

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

eheal6520

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
56
Location
Jacksonville, FL
I would agree on scoping, but if there is no compression with the cams removed that one valve (or something else worse) is leaking. Your original shims are pretty standard for a new build. Looks like you need a 185 shim (check the math) for the worst valve, but if it has to be replaced...

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I agree, the scope and a shim are a good idea if there was some compression...
 

cyclemike4

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
815
Location
ky
One thing to remember is with no cams there is no way to get air in to compress so depending on where the piston is when the gauge is put on there it may not have much of anything in the cylinder. You could try leaving a spark plug out rotating to bottom dead center then putting the compression gauge in and rotating 180 degrees. But with out the engine spinning a bit and no oil on the rings and only one half rotation of the crank on the test I would not expect much if any compression. Just a though to ponder. Good luck with the repairs.
 

StefanOnHisS10

Converting fuel into heat, noise and a bit motion
Staff member
Global Moderator
Joined
Apr 8, 2020
Messages
2,158
Location
The Netherlands, Friesland.
Does anyone know what this means?
View attachment 84131
Exactly what it says. Tighten all the bolts like described in the manual, the angle part means when you reach the right torque, you tighten the bolt further until 220degree turn. From the point you reached the torque setting. (These bolts probably stretch, one time use only then).
I use the Snap-on digital torque wrenches for that kinda work. Others brands also have them.
 

mran

Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2020
Messages
71
Location
Wisconsin
If you got a scope start there. If it looks ok shim it and fix the chain, throw on a new tensioner and fire it up. Comparing compression numbers with out the cams in means nothing.

One guy rebuilt the engine and was seeing 65/70psi because of the decomp so i wouldn't worry about it. If your in that range..

No need to pull the head if you can scope it imo. Youll see if it hit the piston if not fix it an run it
 

eheal6520

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
56
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Is there an arrow or other marking on the head bolts? I don't have the manual with me. Any illustrations? I highly doubt I will ever go further than the normal adjustment.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I should have googled it before posting, there are lots of videos on it. It is exactly as StefanOnHisS10 stated.
 

eheal6520

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
56
Location
Jacksonville, FL
If you got a scope start there. If it looks ok shim it and fix the chain, throw on a new tensioner and fire it up. Comparing compression numbers with out the cams in means nothing.

One guy rebuilt the engine and was seeing 65/70psi because of the decomp so i wouldn't worry about it. If your in that range..

No need to pull the head if you can scope it imo. Youll see if it hit the piston if not fix it an run it
I'm getting a bore scope to hopefully avoid messing any further with the head.
 

eheal6520

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
56
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Sorry for the long delay, lots of family stuff going on. Cutting to the chase, she LIVES again!!!

Because of space constraints and the fact that I could not see the cam alignment marks I ended up pulling the motor. Following the manual it wasn't that bad but did take about 3 hours. Once the motor was out access to the cams is straight forward, nothing to get in the way. I replaced all of the valve shims and checked that they were in spec. I ended up getting a manual cam tensioner because I could not re-compress the new automatic one I got. Played with it for a couple of hours and could not get it to compress. I could easily recompress the old one, which the guts look identical as far as I could tell, but the new one would not compress. Once she was together I spun the crank a lot adjusting the tensioner and rechecking the valve clearance. With that satisfied I put all the covers back on and spent a day putting the motor back in and triple checking all the bits and pieces to get her to the point that I could try to turn her over. To my surprise, she fired up after about 15 seconds of cranking. I then took her out on progressively longer rides starting with just around the block. I was really waiting for something to break or fall off or leak or you know... bad stuff. Again to my surprise, none of that happened. I then proceeded to ride her to work (64 miles round trip) for three days. She sat for the weekend and back to work for another two days. Still no leaks or bad stuff. The really brave part came in the form of a 1500 mile trip to North Carolina and back. All is good now and she purr's like a new S10. Bonus, I now get 45mpg!!!

In the final analysis, it appears that the automatic cam chain tensioner lost tension just enough for the intake cam to jump a tooth. It did this over time four times until she would no longer be persuaded to start. Yes, it is possible I would have seen the jump had I re-shimed the valves sooner but in the end it probably would have been the same result.

Thanks for all the help and advice from everyone. Now let the beatings begin!!
 

holligl

Find the road less traveled...
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
2,212
Location
IL/AZ
Glad to hear all is good!

You gonna sell the new CCT at a discount? Did it come compressed? There is a real technique to it, probably worse new.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 
Top