How much more?

I've recently joined as I'm considering buying an XT 1200. The test drive was good but having ridden the competition (BMW, KTM, Ducati) the engine lacks a bit of fiz. I'm not convinced of reliability of the competition so leaning towards XT. I've read that the ecu can be reflashed. Assuming a standard bike, how much more in BHP and Torque will the reflash add and whats it likley to cost. I live in Shropshire UK.

Nigel

Just had mine flashed at CJS Racing near Bristol. I’ve posted the power graph somewhere on hear but from memory you can expect about 100bhp at the back wheel and more torque lower down. Makes the bike much more rideable with smoother throttle response. I think it was about £400 and takes about half a day on the Dyno


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Welcome from South Wales. The flash won't release any more power, some complain of a jerky throttle and a re-flash sorts it out.

The S10 is a real grower, its never going to set your pants on fire compared to bikes in a simar price bracket but as you've heard, its ultra reliable and will never fail to put a grin on your face.

I had the chance to swap my 2016 for a KTM 1290S without costing much, such a fast bike but it felt flimsy compared to my S10 plus there are under seat heat issues and the chain.

I tried a Strom 1000 back to back with an S10 as I owned a 2006 Strom, the Strom felt lighter and more flickable but I'd read enough to know the S10 would grow on me and it really has. The only bike I'd consider swapping it for is a 1250GSA and that's only because I love the look of them, I certainly couldn't afford to run one.

As you are in the UK have a look for an XT1200 ZE, they have really useful extras over the Z other than just the electronic suspension.

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yoyo said:

Welcome from South Wales. The flash won't release any more power, some complain of a jerky throttle and a re-flash sorts it out.

The S10 is a real grower, its never going to set your pants on fire compared to bikes in a simar price bracket but as you've heard, its ultra reliable and will never fail to put a grin on your face.

I had the chance to swap my 2016 for a KTM 1290S without costing much, such a fast bike but it felt flimsy compared to my S10 plus there are under seat heat issues and the chain.

I tried a Strom 1000 back to back with an S10 as I owned a 2006 Strom, the Strom felt lighter and more flickable but I'd read enough to know the S10 would grow on me and it really has. The only bike I'd consider swapping it for is a 1250GSA and that's only because I love the look of them, I certainly couldn't afford to run one.

As you are in the UK have a look for an XT1200 ZE, they have really useful extras over the Z other than just the electronic suspension.

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Thanks for the quick feedback. Am I right to assume that the 100 bhp at the wheel requires Dyno set up as well as ecu re-flash? Also very interested to hear of someone trading a KTM 1200 for the Tenere. The KTM engine blew me away but I just can't get away from the constant stream of info about electrical gremlins and poor dealer support. One worry for me was would I miss the power of the KTM if I went for the Tenere, hence the ecu re-flash question. I don't want the KTM power because if I'm honest about my riding and abilities I'll rarely if ever use it but I reckon that a Tenere with another 15HP would make buying one an absolute cert. If I do buy one I would be looking for a ZE version.

Nigel

Flashed ECU makes a very big difference but if you want a fast bike just buy an old GXSR...and an old Super Tenere.
The price of both those could still be less than a new GS or KTM

PS. I've done 180,000 miles on 2 Super Teneres and can tell you that you'll have very little trouble with them (if at all)...but they'll never set your pants on fire. That's not what they are for

Oh...and in answer to your question. How much more bhp a flash would bring, probably depends on who does it. One of my bikes had a flashed ecu but I have no idea on the bhp figures. It felt way better but it's never going to be a fast bike

Compare features that you'll actually use; cruise, heated grips, etc. For the price, it's going to find an offering from the competition, that comes close. Then add in the reliability; there's a guy here that's been to Alaska, and back, several times. . . . and has way over 200k miles on a single bike. . . . that he's still taking trips on. Also, don't put the cart before the horse. If/when you get one, ride it for a while. You may find that you don't need/want an ECU flash. I love mine the the way she is. Plenty of power, speed, and agility. She may not be the hottest girl at the prom, but she's guaranteed to give you a happy ending.

Arrow collectors and an Akra/Yoshi canister might net you 10hp while the flash would eliminate Yamaha torque restrictions in 1-3 gears. I wouldn’t change the air filter but many have with pods or a K&N type element. This engine will never equal the KTM or Ducati in the power department so if you really need that kind of thrust, roll the dice on an exotic.

Nigel said:

I've recently joined as I'm considering buying an XT 1200. The test drive was good but having ridden the competition (BMW, KTM, Ducati) the engine lacks a bit of fiz. I'm not convinced of reliability of the competition so leaning towards XT. I've read that the ecu can be reflashed. Assuming a standard bike, how much more in BHP and Torque will the reflash add and whats it likley to cost. I live in Shropshire UK.

Nigel

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One thing to remember about the Tenere as you consider the purchase of a new bike is this motor really takes a long time to break in for some reason. If you are test riding new bikes the Tenere really does feel like they have a Briggs and Stratton engine. Mine felt good new but like you said no real thrill. Of course i was coming off a old FJ1200 and a FJR1300. I rode the bike and as it hit about 40000 miles it started to pick up. Now i am under 100000 but getting close and it makes more power quicker than it ever has. My brother bought an Arctic Cat 4wheeler that did the same thing. It was monster after couple hard years of running. I am in no way any kind of speed demon. I ride will with in my means and i ride to enjoy the ride again another day. But on the same token when i have been around those bikes you have been talking about out on the street anyway and the rider of those bikes wanted to live another day i have had no issues staying with them and had plenty of power left over. I am talking about rides on back roads with lots of curves and steep hills. This bike will not drag race any of those bikes. I am talking about real world public street riding. The thing i love about this bike it is my pickup truck of motorcycles. It is dependable. I ride it every day for everything. I have little time to constantly work on bikes so i need and want one that just goes when i want to go. It does this perfectly.

The ECU flash in combination with Dyno WILL release more power but more importantly it will produce more grunt where you want it I.e. coming out of corners and away from the lights.


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cyclemike4 said:

I rode the bike and as it hit about 40000 miles it started to pick up. Now i am under 100000 but getting close and it makes more power quicker than it ever has.

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Maybe ... that delay in improving performance is related to increase in the compression.

cyclemike4 said:

One thing to remember about the Tenere as you consider the purchase of a new bike is this motor really takes a long time to break in for some reason. . . .

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The RT I rode, used less oil at 60kiles than it did brand new. It went from 1qt every 1k miles, to 1qt every 2k miles. Neither of which is very good, but apparently it took a while for the rings to seat.

MattR said:

. . . . but more importantly it will produce more grunt where you want it I.e. coming out of corners and away from the lights. . . .

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I don't need any more power, I can't use what she has now. She'll easily break loose coming out of corners, and straight up, until about 40mph.

My other bike has more than twice the BHP of the S10 so she does feel a bit flat anyway. But I’ve got used to it and the extra refinement of a tuned ECU helps a lot. I was hoping to get the suspension tuned this month too but I had to cancel it due to covid. At the moment High Command finds the ride of the other bike more comfortable but I think I can see potential in the S10 to be better for her once it’s tuned


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Scotty I need more power!! Captain I've given her all she's got.

Nigel
Welcome! I came off a much quicker bike than the XT and wondered about it myself. I now have 4 years on the XT and I find I do not miss the quickness. Truth time? I did not use the acceleration and the power of my previous bike very often and in hindsight, I never needed it and really only used it when I was doing something very stupid. All said, that was my needs, obviously, yours may vary.

FYI, I have stopped along the road to check on some KTM's and Beemers that were down. I have never done it for an XT, V-Strom or Versys. Not many Triumphs or Dukes around here

Good Luck!
Wally

Again, many thanks to all for the fantastic feedback from everyone. You seem to pretty much reflect the bike you ride - well balanced and knowing what what really works 99% of the time. I can agree with everything you've all said. I have a very fit gen 1 fireblade tucked away at the back of the workshop and that's always been way faster than I'll ever need. I also had an RSV-r Mille and when I look back at the times I truly used the full performance on the road I'd have to say I was riding like a pratt. You've certainly given me a lot of good advice to consider and confirmed much of what I had been thinking. Just one problem. None of the three Yamaha dealer near me keeps a demo XT ZE. Yamaha customer service tell me the nearest test ride dealer is in Wigan - close on a 3 hour drive away. No wonder they can't sell them if they are so disinterested in getting potential buyers out for a test ride.

One of the least advertised models out there. Though it has been fun to find the Tenere showing up in random product photo shoots.

I went the s10 because of the shaft and tubeless tires. I considered the 790 but passed due to the issues and all the electronics that could be issues in the future. I test rode a 1290 new off the showroom floor. Very impressive bike. I rode it for 10 miles and pulled back in the dealer with smoke boiling out from under the seat. It blew an oil line off one of the cylinder heads and soaked my shoe in oil. A fluke im sure but and luckily I was only a few blocks away when it started smoking.
I also flashed mine. I dont know if it made an overall horsepower increase but it feels like it did. Smoothed the throttle response out so I think it is worth it.

Have you considered a Honda CrossTourer? Similar weight to the ST, but plenty more HP. Also a very capable bike.