No idle and high idle problem

Kevhunts

"For every one you see, you probably missed three"
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Re: No idle and high idle ??

Ramseybella said:
Just checked my Voltage the day before spot on, the connections are clean and tight I am most likely ready for a new battery but it has been a healthy start every time.
Seriously I don't think this issue is the battery I think it is shorting out something in the system, took it out today no problem.
But as I have pointed out "No one know as of yet".. ::024::
I've seen batteries with a cell going bad cause weird issues. A lot of ECU's monitor voltage and if they see a drop, will raise engine rpm to try and get the charging system to output more. Another issue that can be deceiving is voltage. A connection may read proper voltage but due to high resistance, may not pass the proper amount of current. Just some food for thought...
 

Puff998

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Re: No idle and high idle ??

No reflash done .Dealer called me Sat out of the blue and told me ..hey it's idling now and no high revs ??...So I go get it .2/3 way home I stop at my buddies shop and the idle was rough but it did not stall . 20 minutes later I go to leave and it won't start at all sowing a code 60 .I leave to get a trailer and on return it's started and showed no code ..grrrrrr. Dealer has no idea what the cause is ..
 

Ramseybella

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Re: No idle and high idle ??

So I am now wondering how may members have had this issue even if it just happened once or twice!
It would be a small number I am guessing, but still good information non the less. ::024::
 

Kevhunts

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Re: No idle and high idle ??

Puff998 said:
No reflash done .Dealer called me Sat out of the blue and told me ..hey it's idling now and no high revs ??...So I go get it .2/3 way home I stop at my buddies shop and the idle was rough but it did not stall . 20 minutes later I go to leave and it won't start at all sowing a code 60 .I leave to get a trailer and on return it's started and showed no code ..grrrrrr. Dealer has no idea what the cause is ..
I think fault code 60 has to do with the throttle servo motor (open or shorted)
 

Nimbus

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Re: No idle and high idle ??

I've made an interesting discovery. My bike was behaving very poorly over the past week or so. Usually this low idle/high idle problem has been very intermittent. This week it was more or less a problem all week. One night I came home and started feeling around in the wires on the right side of the bike (didn't feel like taking the cover that hides all the electronics/battery off) and had the bike repeatedly stutter, or rev (like I was using the throttle). It wasn't a 100% correlation, but it happened enough times that I felt confident that it was wiring related.

Fast forward to today: I couldn't replicate the problem even with the bike running at 2K idle in front of me. However, the battery appears fine (somewhere just north of 14V). I felt around and moved wires and the bike did periodically act odd. Ultimately, however, I kept my finger on a particular wire and nearly got burned. The engine was really hot, but I noticed that this wire cooled down very rapidly when I shut off the bike. I traced it back and it connects to the ground and then back up to the negative battery terminal through the part of the harness that I touched and got weird behavior.

Soo...I pulled apart the 2" long white/translucent connector that sits just by the battery. As soon as I got the connection loose a ton of sand fell out of it and appeared to be inside of the female part of the connectors. I blew it out (with a good deal more sand coming out) and then douched it good with the miracle (expensive) computer contact cleaner/anti-corrosive/protector stuff that comes out at 100mph.

Anyway, I'm not going to hold my breath, but it seems plausible that this could be the problem.
 

tubebender

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Re: No idle and high idle ??

Great detective work. Perseverance and patience when trying to find a problem like that go a long way to a solution.
Some years ago one of my sons bikes kept blowing the main fuse. Took us all weekend , and a lot of fuses, but we finally traced it to a little nub of weld spatter that had rubbed through the harness.
 

Buckeroo Brad

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

I have been watching this topic since I bought a 2012 S10 in October 2014. I have been experiencing all the same issues, except for the high rev to 5000 rpm. I have not had a code 60 to my knowledge. Replacing the cracked vacuum lines helped, but did not solve the problem. The problem only seems to occur when the temperature is cold or damp and does not matter if the engine is hot or cold, although cold it is difficult to start. Hot, it responds like a flooded carburetor. I had began to wonder if a fuel mapping sensor was bonkers. Not sure what the acronym is for that item. The previous owner added some electronics, and I am wondering if he rerouted some wiring maybe causing some electrical issues. We bikers are notorious for making improvements. After reading about the recall for the V-Max, I'm wondering if any of you explored this issue with the S10 grounds? This is the only problem that I have had with this super machine, but a finicky electrical system is a HUGE MINUS. I have rewired bikes in the past, but all this computerization has me a bit on edge. I'm even a little wary of messing with the grounds. Any follow up?
 

Nimbus

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

So there are three separate threads on this issue. I've been struggling with it for some time. I'm not sure how it turned out for anybody else, but you can see my last post in the thread attached below (copied here: I've made an interesting discovery. My bike was behaving very poorly over the past week or so. Usually this low idle/high idle problem has been very intermittent. This week it was more or less a problem all week. One night I came home and started feeling around in the wires on the right side of the bike (didn't feel like taking the cover that hides all the electronics/battery off) and had the bike repeatedly stutter, or rev (like I was using the throttle). It wasn't a 100% correlation, but it happened enough times that I felt confident that it was wiring related.

Fast forward to today: I couldn't replicate the problem even with the bike running at 2K idle in front of me. However, the battery appears fine (somewhere just north of 14V). I felt around and moved wires and the bike did periodically act odd. Ultimately, however, I kept my finger on a particular wire and nearly got burned. The engine was really hot, but I noticed that this wire cooled down very rapidly when I shut off the bike. I traced it back and it connects to the ground and then back up to the negative battery terminal through the part of the harness that I touched and got weird behavior.

Soo...I pulled apart the 2" long white/translucent connector that sits just by the battery. As soon as I got the connection loose a ton of sand fell out of it and appeared to be inside of the female part of the connectors. I blew it out (with a good deal more sand coming out) and then douched it good with the miracle (expensive) computer contact cleaner/anti-corrosive/protector stuff that comes out at 100mph.

Anyway, I'm not going to hold my breath, but it seems plausible that this could be the problem.

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=17321.0


So the update is that a week later and it seems to be running as good as ever. We've had a wretchedly wet and humid past week and I've ridden to work whenever it hasn't been pouring. The bike has idled fine all week and has not done anything abnormal. Given that it was increasingly consistent in it's failing, I'm hard pressed to believe that my discovery didn't have something to do with the problem. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. It certainly couldn't hurt for those who have the idle issue to check the connector noted above and see if the wire is hot and/or if cleaning the connection up helps. I have to say that I'd be deeply satisfied if I saved myself weeks and hundreds/thousands of dollars of frustration with dealers. Even moreso if I could help out a brother rider.
 

itlives

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

These are the kinds of nuggets I look for when on a relevant site -and this is.
Thanks Nimbus!
 

Buckeroo Brad

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

This really seems like a fuel mapping or fuel computer issue to me. The bike will not start normally unless I pull back on the throttle. I let it run at about 3k then let off where it idles around 1150. But the moment I place it into gear and release the clutch, it jumps to 3k and away I go at about 22mph in first gear. Clutch in or neutral and idle drops to normal. For a few days it would not idle at all. After the wild ride in first, I parked the bike on the center stand and let it idle for about 15 minutes when suddenly it jumped up to 2500 rpm on its own. I shut it off then. The engine operates normally as far as I can tell, but something is sending mixed signals to the fuel system. This really does sound like the issue with the 09 V-Max a few years ago. One of the commenters here said the dealer reset the computer. I'm calling Yamaha Consumer Complaints and see what they say, then start calling dealers around and see if they have run across this problem down here. More to come.
 

Nimbus

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

Whenever mine was acting up, it has never mattered whether clutch was in or in neutral. That has been helpful for not crashing as I can tell when I pull in the clutch to downshift and the revs hang, that I'm going to need to be careful going into the corner. ::022::
 

Buckeroo Brad

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

Mine seems to be affected by cold damp. Yesterday, the humidity went away. The bike started normally this morning and operated normally on a 20 mile ride. One of my buddies suggested that I try a quality Conductive lubricant on the electrical connections. I found one called NO-OX-ID. Has anybody tried this?
http://www.sanchem.com/electrical-contact-lubricant.html
 

scott123007

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

fedev2 said:
Yes I've seen that explanation since the very first moment, in my case, the dealer now is working along with yamaha's technician because they "think" its a EMI problem, the armour of the wiring apparently it is not properly placed. I've done 40,000 km with this bike in 1 year, but another year and a half was spent at the dealer,IMO the bike is not a bad product at all, BUT what Yamaha offers as a brand in this country is behind every other in the market, BMW's may have problems but dealers solve them, replacing or fixing but solve them. I'm not a BMW fan, I'm far from that but I must admit their dealers are more serious than Yamaha's. I've took the bike to 5 different Yamaha's dealer and NONE of the came up with a solution.
It's not a common bike here, and the street is plenty of GS so, dont expect to see a lot of ST riding around with Yamaha acting like this. Look like their only goal is achieved by selling u$s1000 bikes normally used for delivering food or postcards.
Except for your very last sentence, those are some very interesting and valid points your are making, but it can also be argued that BMW's problems are numerous and there are MANY of them out there, where Yamaha's problems are scarce and there are only a FEW out there comparatively speaking, so they have little to go on.
 

RhodeTrip

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

I haven't got my S10 yet but I can tell you that for years i chased electronic problems around the globe. What I can tell you is that many times when there were intermittent issues on all types of equipment, I would find poor grounds. With my present bike (Victory), erratic idle, stalling, and surging have all been solved by cleaning electrical connections (especially grounds) and coating with dielectric grease; I had a wrench install a fuel controller and pick a bad point to ground it and that raised hell with the bike until I found it. Start at your battery, disconnect and work your way out, wire brush or polish connections then coat with dielectric grease and tighten. Do the same with the battery connections and reconnect battery as the last step.
Good luck,
Jim
 

2daMax

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

My S10 2012 (700km old) has no issues with erratic idling and I hope it never happens. Just sharing what I found on my car's erratic idling, It is a Toyota Corolla 1996, F.I engine. I changed my old NGK iridium plugs to a Bosch Ir. Fusion (with 4 ground electrodes) and 3k km later started to experience erratic hunting idle. Normal is 800revs, and abnormal was erratic 1200 to 1800revs. I noticed that when i turned on the headlamps, the erratic behavior will show itself. Off the lamps, goes back to normal. Sometimes, with the lamps on, it is normal. I tried chasing the problems, changed battery, disty, checked plug cables and then after many months, decided to try the plugs. Swap back to the old plugs and the erratic idling went off for good.

The Bosch plugs were causing intermittent idling. I also felt at times, a little under powered.

Another thing for more modern F.I vehicles that has Plug Coils can go bad and shows the same symptoms.

With this learning within these threads, I will spray silicone lube on the connectors to prevent corrosion. I think with moisture, electrolysis can occur at the connectors and over time, due to corrosion, causes a contact issue.
 

Buckeroo Brad

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Re: Idle speed problem min 800 max 3500

Just got my bike back from the shop. My throttle bodies were 25% out of sync. The valves were just a tad out, but had them adjusted. Had them replace the plugs while in there. And they ran PowerFoam through the engine to clean the sensors. So far, it runs like a new bike, idles correctly, starts in the damp, and so far has not behaved erratically. When I went to pick it up, I asked the technician about the kill switch having any effect with the start up procedure. I showed him the different things that did not happen with the switch off or on. Then the bike wouldn't start. He had to pull the throttle back (like it was flooded) to start it. That was the first time since they had it that happened. My conclusion from all the notices that Yamaha has on file for this bike is that there is a problem, but they don't quite know what it is. They have a whole list of stuff on file that didn't work. They even have a video on what to check on similar problems. My issues seemed to happen more often in the rain or damp air. It's been raining like crazy around here for several days and the air is damp. It starts and runs great! kings X, knock on wood.
 

Ramseybella

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Los Alamos, new Mexico
Re: No idle and high idle ??

Well it happened again.
Went for a nice easy 100+ mile ride through the mountains to Taos, NM got into town and at the light I felt that dying idle feel!!
Sure enough, she wanted to die I just kept her revving through the throttle till I pulled into Wally World parked it and went in for about 20 minutes or so bought a can of Seafoam.
Popped the cap and pored 1/4 can in and it fired right up at 1000 rpm it sat, went to a local 66 station that had non Vodka polluted gas it took 3 gallons.
Rode it home with no problem and just around 1100 or so rpm's like normal.
::010:: I can't pin this down!!

At least one thing I learned from before is just turn it off walk away and try it in a few, batting at the starter button just frustrates the hell out of you and drains the battery..
 
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