Author Topic: Airscrew Adjustment to fix off-idle stumble and Throttle Body Sync - w/ pigtails  (Read 59275 times)

Offline Rynn Storm

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
And we used to play with it as kids, jeeze.

There are people that smoke that never get cancer, that doesn't imply smoking is safe.   That said, people shouldn't freak out about mercury, but worth avoiding contact with.
Rynn

2012 Yamaha XT12Z Super Tenere, Fast Blue

Offline Yamaguy55

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 880
  • No difficult problems, just difficult people
To those who have already mastered the CO & SYNC proceedures, where are the home made training videos?  ::017::

There are 8x10 glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back explaining each one....

Not enough?
Blue XT1200Z, WR250R: also Blue (the fast color) And a neglected XS400G as a Scrambler project.

Offline Kevhunts

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 575
  • "For every one you see, you probably missed three"
There are 8x10 glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back explaining each one....

Not enough?

Those pics were just a tease....me want the good porn!   :P
Actually, I'm hoping that someday, someone with the right skills, camera, etc. will produce some repair/maint. videos we can all enjoy, learn from, and reference to. ::008::
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 08:46:48 pm by Kevhunts »
The act of riding is a form of meditation, because the concentration that's required to safely ride a motorcycle tends to focus the mind in a way that eliminates other mental distractions that might interfere with the mission.

Offline Koinz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1774
    • Visited
Those pics were just a tease....me want the good porn!   :P
Actually, I'm hoping that someday, someone with the right skills, camera, etc. will produce some repair/maint. videos we can all enjoy, learn from, and reference to. ::008::

Hey Kevhunts, come on up to my place some time and I'll be happy to screw up.....ah fix your bike.  I don't have one of those new fangled harmonizers but my home made manometer seems to do the job and you can video all you want. 
I'm not sure about this weekend though, but we can plan something,
2012 Raven Super Tenere
1985 Yamaha XT 600
2003 BMW R1200CLC - Sold
2006 Suzuki V-Strom DL1000 - sold

Offline Tiger_one

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1125
  • 2012 Yukon Rally attendee
::015::
Tiger, thanks for checking this again.  I might also suggest that the air sensor may also be affected by the length of the pigtail. In another life I worked as a tune-up and emissions specialist at a Ford dealer.  Some sensors are very sensitive to vacuum signals and the extended length and vacuum pulses through the tube could be the cause.  I haven't had a chance to try the smaller tubes, but I just wanted to offer an alternate cause.  Ford was very specific regarding the length and routing of vacuum lines.

The pigtail length makes more sense, as even tho I had no wire on the fitting at the "T" i highly doubted it was leaking.  thanks for your info.
David H
14 KTM 1190 Adv
13 HyperStrada

Offline Yamaguy55

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 880
  • No difficult problems, just difficult people
Hey Kevhunts, come on up to my place some time and I'll be happy to screw up.....ah fix your bike.  I don't have one of those new fangled harmonizers but my home made manometer seems to do the job and you can video all you want. 
I'm not sure about this weekend though, but we can plan something,

That's the spirit!
Blue XT1200Z, WR250R: also Blue (the fast color) And a neglected XS400G as a Scrambler project.

Offline Kevhunts

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 575
  • "For every one you see, you probably missed three"
Hey Kevhunts, come on up to my place some time and I'll be happy to screw up.....ah fix your bike.  I don't have one of those new fangled harmonizers but my home made manometer seems to do the job and you can video all you want. 
I'm not sure about this weekend though, but we can plan something,

Actually I must be one of the fortunate one's who's bike does not have any idling, accel issues.
I've got my trusty-rusty old 4 channel mercury unit I bought back in the 80's from MotionPro if I feel the need to sync before the 6k mark. Maybe if something else comes up I'll swing by and let you scew up...I mean fix my bike.  ::013::
The act of riding is a form of meditation, because the concentration that's required to safely ride a motorcycle tends to focus the mind in a way that eliminates other mental distractions that might interfere with the mission.

Offline Koinz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1774
    • Visited
Dman, and I was looking forward to it.  :D. No problem, we still need to arrange a northeast gathering sometime, maybe a fall ride.
2012 Raven Super Tenere
1985 Yamaha XT 600
2003 BMW R1200CLC - Sold
2006 Suzuki V-Strom DL1000 - sold

Offline tomatocity

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3345
We installed the new pigtails (left in place) and balanced the TBs a couple weeks ago and it ran well then it started running poorly off idle, at lower speeds / RPMs, and showing a Engine Trouble Warning Light. Removed the pigtails and the engine started running good again. Probably vacuum leak(s).

Monday the engine started poorly again with surging at low speed and low RPM. The Engine Trouble Warning Light stays on for a moment when starting. I replaced the vacuum line and added wire clamps plus used a ziptie to secure the rightside rubber cap. Still runs the same, poorly.

I did not check the TB balance. I have not completed the CO setting.

Any suggestions appreciated.
Tim
Yamaha Super Tenere XTZ12B(C) Impact Blue, #027, 7/30/2011
2005 KLR685

Offline Kevhunts

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 575
  • "For every one you see, you probably missed three"
1. Can you set the air scews back to their orignal postions and try that?
2. If not, perhaps you need to repeat the proceedure and include the CO adjustments.

Did you have the stumbling issues that others had that brought about the orignal post or are you just experimenting?
The act of riding is a form of meditation, because the concentration that's required to safely ride a motorcycle tends to focus the mind in a way that eliminates other mental distractions that might interfere with the mission.

Offline tomatocity

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 3345
1. Can you set the air scews back to their orignal postions and try that?
2. If not, perhaps you need to repeat the proceedure and include the CO adjustments.

Did you have the stumbling issues that others had that brought about the orignal post or are you just experimenting?

Yes, originally there was stumbling after the clutch was let out and inconsistant performance.

The right side adjustment was changed before I could mark it. Same with the left side. The engine ran well after the TB balance then decided to change after 2,000+ miles. I was hoping it was another vacuum leak. I will re-balance the TBs to see if this is the cure. Then I will do the CO setting. Need to get a wire tap tomorrow.
Tim
Yamaha Super Tenere XTZ12B(C) Impact Blue, #027, 7/30/2011
2005 KLR685

Offline japako

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 2782
Why don't you set it back to stock. Turn the right side screw (gently), all the way in until it stops. Now use the left side to sync. Leave the CO alone and take it for a ride. Buy a 1/8" cap and a short section of 7/64" hose to replace the oem.

Now, if it still acts the same way, take it back to your dealer and let them fix it. That's the best advice I can give you..
Good luck.
Jim

2012  Blue Super Tenere  Sold
2011  WR250R


www.rideonadv.com

Offline Kevhunts

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 575
  • "For every one you see, you probably missed three"
I'd like to comment on the sync & co proceedure. ::009::
It's my understanding that the stumble issue is due to a lean condition.
Opening the air screws more than the factory settings alone would seem to make the lean condition worse unless more CO (fuel) was added.
Adding CO (fuel) alone would probably help the stumble but also bring the idle speed down too low, so that's why a air screw setting of 270 (3/4) turns was called for.
From what I've been reading folks are using the wrong diameter vacuum line when trying to do the sync proceedure and are not getting accurate results.
Once all the adjustments are completed, and all test hoses removed, it might be a good idea to pull the Ecm fuse and clear any previous "learned fuel trim" if this system uses that programming.

Found this on the web....
Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki (with some exceptions) all seem to prefer Denso processors in conjunction with Keihin throttle bodies. Typically, at low speeds these systems use a Speed Density map, and shift over to an Alpha-N map at larger throttle openings. Normally these systems also utilize sequentially fired injectors and incorporate tip-over switches to kill the engine in the event of a get-off.
The act of riding is a form of meditation, because the concentration that's required to safely ride a motorcycle tends to focus the mind in a way that eliminates other mental distractions that might interfere with the mission.

Offline Koinz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 1774
    • Visited
Quote
Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawasaki (with some exceptions) all seem to prefer Denso processors in conjunction with Keihin throttle bodies. Typically, at low speeds these systems use a Speed Density map, and shift over to an Alpha-N map at larger throttle openings. Normally these systems also utilize sequentially fired injectors and incorporate tip-over switches to kill the engine in the event of a get-off.

I'm not familiar with the functions of the processors, but my BMW had a process to reset the tps and learned o2 sensor settings.
Ignition key on, open and close to wide open throttle 3 times then turn off ignition. After that the ecu would relearn the optimum settings as you drove it again.

You may be on to something Watson.  ;D
2012 Raven Super Tenere
1985 Yamaha XT 600
2003 BMW R1200CLC - Sold
2006 Suzuki V-Strom DL1000 - sold

Offline ~TABASCO~

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 4543
  • RIDE ON ADV is what I do !
Kev,

 I agree, In all my years on working on these type bikes I would not use the extra vacuum lines. I ran into issues like this years ago when we where chasing our tails around because the equipment and sensors on the bike are so sensitive.  On my own bikes Ive always taken the nipples off, hooked up the measuring device, synchronize the TB or carbs and put back on the factory nipples..   People need to keep in mind that the connectors like T connectors have an ID and OD.. The ID can effect the vacuum off one cylinder and throw off the sync of the other. The ID of the tube can do it aswell... I under stand it makes it really simple to re adjust but in my personal experience its not as accurate...  I keep reading all these post with popping, possible leaking, Etc, Etc... Take those hoses off. The TB sync is not something that needs to be done that often. If your going to play with it, make sure you put the little rubber nipples back on and go that rout...   If the hoses are off, and the end user has issues we can eliminate the possibilities of those hoses, Etc.  That opens the door for accurate situations... Of course this just has been my experience.

 Factory ECM maps. Ive just put on a PCV.  This next week I will be installing the Auto Tune. With this unit I can install the factory map back into the PCV, ride the bike and then down load the active auto tune. This should give the parameters of the stock map live and tell me the differences across the board and even in the closed loop sections (cells) on the system. We should be able to easily see what the 'stock' ECM is calling for across the board and how that differs from the stock map. Hence we can determine if there is a lead in map fallowed by a master type map probably mid way though the RPM and load range in the closed loop (non) Adjustable (is adjustable) section.   After knowing this I can utilize the PCV and the AT to actively switch and open the parameters of the AFE percentages and tune the bike with a perfect FA*.......... 

 Devin.. I spoke to Roy today for an hour again. I learned some new really cool stuff.  This dang thing can do just about anything you can think of.  After I get a *performance map dialed in and a *touring map dialed in im going to have two switches. One will cut the power to the AT and the second with then be able to toggle on the fly between my Touring map and my performance map.  If I ever need to have the AT adjust anything I can then disable the 'on the fly map' and turn on the AT and let it do its thing to re-tune the map on the go.....   How cool....
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 11:37:24 pm by ~TABASCO~ »
Shipping HEIDENAU'S... In stock

Face Book  https://www.facebook.com/pages/RIDE-ON-ADV/141890372648072

2014 Yamaha Super Ténéré Rally Details

 
www.rideonadv.com
2012 Super Tenere - 1"bar riser - motoX grips - ECUnleashed flash - Barnett clutch pressure plate - UNI filter - Air box mod - Akrapovic custom muffler - Arrow headers - PCV&AT - Ohlins suspension front & rear - Trailtech Voyager - Steel braded lines on everything - Ride On skid plate - Carbon fork guards - rear disc gard - rear res guard - WC turn signals - WC headlight guard - ADV tires - WC/ride on graphics - sync TB - Baja Squadrons & S2 - custom dash LED's - Custom light harness - Ride On custom light switch - Keyless gas cap - Pivot pegz - Ride On r

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
12 Replies
1762 Views
Last post August 07, 2011, 08:53:10 am
by Checkswrecks
18 Replies
2354 Views
Last post August 14, 2011, 10:32:59 pm
by SpeedStar
19 Replies
5803 Views
Last post July 26, 2013, 04:24:35 pm
by tlucky
4 Replies
1169 Views
Last post January 01, 2013, 02:11:16 pm
by triman11427
7 Replies
550 Views
Last post April 02, 2014, 12:58:50 pm
by macca


testate