Author Topic: No idle and high idle problem  (Read 30631 times)

Offline JoshMundy

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Re: No idle and high idle problem
« Reply #240 on: April 04, 2018, 03:41:07 pm »
Sounds like an intermittent issues with Idling condition (off throttle) and I am also assuming that when you pull in the clutch, the throttle is also off.

Brain storming.

The YCCT system controls the throttle valves, opening it at certain angle to let in the right amount of air which the also release the right amount of fuel. ECU looks at MAP sensor vacuum readings, intake temperature, Throttle position sensor and determines the amount of fuel to release, and checks the O2 sensor if it did the right amount, under Close Loop conditions.

Areas I think the problem would occur are:
1. TPS sensor or its connectors and wiring associated to it.  The service guide shows how to check it.  Located at the throttle bodies.  Most likely source as this thing tells the servo motor how much to turn.
2. MAP sensor, or its connectors or wiring associated to it.
3. Servo Motor that drives the throttle plates but it being the fault is rare as it works when the throttle are turned.
4. Mechanical linkages that open and closes these throttle plates, are they loose, too much play, too tight...

Check item 1, maybe it is the wiring that tells the ECU the wrong information.  There is a post on making the bike respond better by adjusting it.

Lastly, is your throttle plates gummy with oily residue.  Would not harm to use Carb cleaning fluid to clean the plates and the surrounding throttle areas.  This is sticky stuff and sticky makes things inconsistent.

All my connections are good.  I went through when this first happened, checked all connections and added dielectric grease.

Havent checked the linkages as the throttle feels correct and responds as id expect.  It is just the times it does it, it happens and then will be fine for a while.

JoshMundy::: You just described exactly how my bike starting it's long journey of giving me misery for two or more years..
Intermittent stalls had to WAT from time to time to get it to fire up and feather the throttle to keep it running.
Then ran fine for a month or two then start's it crap again..
Nearly a year of High, low and stall bouncing RPM's at a light, i was about to push it off a cliff and clam it stolen at one point. :mad:
As i have been saying all along Yamaha knows much of whats going on just not recalling them.
Wiring harness so far has 99% fixed it, it does do the 900 RPM drop once in awhile but never stalled no more raw fuel parked in the garage smell.
And still pulling like a Mule with off the line Cheetah legs. ;) CROSS THE FINGERS?

Ya im not sure what I will do, but probably get it back into the dealership.  I just dont want to deal with them saying it needs the new ecu, as I highly doubt it is that but I have a feeling they will say if I refuse the ecu replacement then they have no other ideas as with the error codes it was throwing the book says replace ecu.

I own a 2015 non-es and it stalls at least once per tank of gas. Reading and working on a fix now. First time I have had a fuel problem on a Yamaha. I was out the other day with a BMW GS and a V-strom well the light turned green and everyone took off but me. They still won't leave it a lone. :(

This is a different problem.  Our bikes are not stalling and stumbling, they just are dying once there is zero throttle input and clutch is pulled in.   I can be doing 70 on freeway, let off throttle and pull in clutch, tach drops to zero.
2013 Super Tenere - Wasp graphics,Yamaha skid plate, Yosh RS4 carbon/SS exhaust with Carbon Fiber heat shield, Seat Concepts Seat, GIVI crash bars,Cyclops LED headlight, Rigid LED Light Bar, Galfer Stainless Brake/Clutch lines, Heated grips with electronic 3-way control, ProTaper Raptor Bars, Custom dash buttons to left control area, SW-Motech GPS mount with hardwired Garmin Zumo 660, Touratech Sport Tour Stainless Pegs, Fuze Block wiring.

Offline Super08

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Re: No idle and high idle problem
« Reply #241 on: April 04, 2018, 04:38:58 pm »
I have had that happen to my bike just before it was parked for the winter. I went to downshift, when I pulled in the clutch to blip the throttle it died as soon as I pulled in the clutch. I just let it back out and the engine fired right back up..
I have just done a few loops around my subdivision so far this spring due to the crappy weather. So far it hasn't reoccurred.
16 Tenere
18 FJR

Offline JoshMundy

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Re: No idle and high idle problem
« Reply #242 on: April 04, 2018, 05:07:41 pm »
I have had that happen to my bike just before it was parked for the winter. I went to downshift, when I pulled in the clutch to blip the throttle it died as soon as I pulled in the clutch. I just let it back out and the engine fired right back up..
I have just done a few loops around my subdivision so far this spring due to the crappy weather. So far it hasn't reoccurred.

Im my situation I can always pop out clutch and it fires up, but when i come to a stop or pull clutch in without throttle it will die again.  Then to get it to start you have to crack open the throttle a little, and then it will run but the rpms hang, never drop down even with zero throttle input.  It isnt until you turn off the bike, wait 10 seconds and turn bike back on that it operates normal
2013 Super Tenere - Wasp graphics,Yamaha skid plate, Yosh RS4 carbon/SS exhaust with Carbon Fiber heat shield, Seat Concepts Seat, GIVI crash bars,Cyclops LED headlight, Rigid LED Light Bar, Galfer Stainless Brake/Clutch lines, Heated grips with electronic 3-way control, ProTaper Raptor Bars, Custom dash buttons to left control area, SW-Motech GPS mount with hardwired Garmin Zumo 660, Touratech Sport Tour Stainless Pegs, Fuze Block wiring.

Offline 2daMax

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Re: No idle and high idle problem
« Reply #243 on: April 04, 2018, 09:38:03 pm »
Did you observe if it does it in T or S mode or regardless.

I was in S mode a couple of times and when I pull in the clutch while cruising to a stop (throttle off), the engine died.  Bike was new then.  The Air screw 1/2 out from fully closed fix this kind of issues. Never had the stall since the screw adjustments.

From the observation that the issue fixes itself after the key is off and on again, shows a sensor issue, most likely the TPS, since it tells the ECU which angular position it is.

Since it is intermittent, it is hard to diagnose.  But do observe the environmental conditions when it occurs, such as wet high humidity, dry, cold, hot, etc ?  If it is a humidity correlated issue is likely that there is a short somewhere in the wiring or connector.  Also observe, if there were high vibrations or impact that can kicked in the symptoms. 
Current: 2012 Super Tenere - White/Red Speedblocks
Previous:
2011 to 2015 - Kawasaki Versys 650 2011
2010 to 2011 - Kawasaki Ninja 250R 2008

Offline Ramseybella

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Re: No idle and high idle problem
« Reply #244 on: April 04, 2018, 10:03:44 pm »
Im my situation I can always pop out clutch and it fires up, but when i come to a stop or pull clutch in without throttle it will die again.  Then to get it to start you have to crack open the throttle a little, and then it will run but the rpms hang, never drop down even with zero throttle input.  It isn't until you turn off the bike, wait 10 seconds and turn bike back on that it operates normal
By the way what year is your bike?
"Technology applied for the sake of those who wish to escape it"

Offline Checkswrecks

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Re: No idle and high idle problem
« Reply #245 on: April 08, 2018, 12:30:15 pm »
By the way what year is your bike?


Thanks for writing this Ramsey.
The Gen1 and Gen2 are very different with respect to hard start issues. The Gen2 engine is slightly different and it has a different ECU.
Damascus, MD
XTZ1200, KTM 690R

Offline Ramseybella

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Re: No idle and high idle problem
« Reply #246 on: April 13, 2018, 02:02:06 am »
Never the less you need as well as your service manager to start calling Yamaha U.S.A.
Just mentioning wiring harness made the Yam tech mechanic bring a new one with him to New Mexico.
It started the same way and just got worse and more frequent.
Some guy on Youtube has the high idle while riding down the road, it idles at 2 to 3k with his hand off the throttle.
My 2012 did that and when you pulled the clutch in it idled at normal 1100 rpm, let i go and it jumped up to 2 to 3k again.
Was told by the tech the 2012 and 2013 was high on the list with this issue.
"Technology applied for the sake of those who wish to escape it"

Offline SugarHighRider

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Re: No idle and high idle problem
« Reply #247 on: April 14, 2018, 10:37:20 am »
To the ones who have had their wiring harnesses replaced by Yamaha; did they cover only the cost of the harness or the labor involved as well?
I've been fighting these issues with my bike for a couple of years but it has recently gotten worse.
Time spent on a motorcycle is not deducted from your total lifespan

Offline Ramseybella

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Re: No idle and high idle problem
« Reply #248 on: April 14, 2018, 02:12:55 pm »

Thanks for writing this Ramsey.
The Gen1 and Gen2 are very different with respect to hard start issues. The Gen2 engine is slightly different and it has a different ECU.
That's true.
But haven't been picking up on anyone with the Gen2 having the idle issues of the Ge1 Tens.
Different wiring harness was designed, that was installed into my Tenere.
Since the tech made a comment that it mainly hit the 2012-13 Teneres, i joked may be a tsunami thing?
I wish folks would have gave me phone numbers to give to the tech before he left, as he knows what's going on and reads the forums including this one.
To anyone again CALL and don't stop calling. Find a good service manager that will support you.
I did and it took blood sweat and many tears to get it done.

SugarHighRider:: The coast was free and a fat $500.00 Yamaha credit for my troubles. All was out of warranty since February.
I may have had God watching over me that day i don't know, but it took a solid hammer to get them to pay attention and again a fantastic service manager that went above and beyond.. Much thank's Robert at Bobby J's!! ;)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 02:17:36 pm by Ramseybella »
"Technology applied for the sake of those who wish to escape it"

Offline JoshMundy

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Re: No idle and high idle problem
« Reply #249 on: April 18, 2018, 11:14:34 am »
Sorry its been a few days, and I do not get emails or any notification when someone replies to this thread, so its hard to remember to keep checking back here.  Anyways, happened again this morning....   ::010::

Did you observe if it does it in T or S mode or regardless.

I was in S mode a couple of times and when I pull in the clutch while cruising to a stop (throttle off), the engine died.  Bike was new then.  The Air screw 1/2 out from fully closed fix this kind of issues. Never had the stall since the screw adjustments.

From the observation that the issue fixes itself after the key is off and on again, shows a sensor issue, most likely the TPS, since it tells the ECU which angular position it is.

Since it is intermittent, it is hard to diagnose.  But do observe the environmental conditions when it occurs, such as wet high humidity, dry, cold, hot, etc ?  If it is a humidity correlated issue is likely that there is a short somewhere in the wiring or connector.  Also observe, if there were high vibrations or impact that can kicked in the symptoms.

I am usually always in S mode, but yes it has done it a few times in T.  Good idea to swap back over and leave in T and see if still an issue.

Yes hard to diagnose because its so intermittent, but the shop has seen it happen to them when they had it in august.  I have had it do it to me in all temperature ranges throughout the year, early morning, late afternoon / evening, ect....   

By the way what year is your bike?

2013 - Its in my signature

Never the less you need as well as your service manager to start calling Yamaha U.S.A.
Just mentioning wiring harness made the Yam tech mechanic bring a new one with him to New Mexico.
It started the same way and just got worse and more frequent.
Some guy on Youtube has the high idle while riding down the road, it idles at 2 to 3k with his hand off the throttle.
My 2012 did that and when you pulled the clutch in it idled at normal 1100 rpm, let i go and it jumped up to 2 to 3k again.
Was told by the tech the 2012 and 2013 was high on the list with this issue.
Different wiring harness was designed, that was installed into my Tenere.
Since the tech made a comment that it mainly hit the 2012-13 Teneres, i joked may be a tsunami thing?
I wish folks would have gave me phone numbers to give to the tech before he left, as he knows what's going on and reads the forums including this one.
To anyone again CALL and don't stop calling. Find a good service manager that will support you.

That is slightly my issue, with the last visit they were hell bent on replacing the ECU as it was on the list of what to do in the service manual.  A Yamaha tech mechanic did come by the shop for a visit and worked with the mechanic in the shop to "fix" my bike when they thought it was the clutch switch.  I guess my next stop is getting bike back to them for them to work on it again, but im just worried they will go straight to the "its the ecu", even though i had the issue when they went ahead and replaced it and when I was riding home it did it again.  So thats when they did the clutch switch and it was fine, they still wanted me to keep the ecu.  I told them no way, put my old one back in and see if the issue comes back, so they did and rode it for a week and no issue so we thought we had it fixed. 

Guess I just need to call them and get it in  ::002::
2013 Super Tenere - Wasp graphics,Yamaha skid plate, Yosh RS4 carbon/SS exhaust with Carbon Fiber heat shield, Seat Concepts Seat, GIVI crash bars,Cyclops LED headlight, Rigid LED Light Bar, Galfer Stainless Brake/Clutch lines, Heated grips with electronic 3-way control, ProTaper Raptor Bars, Custom dash buttons to left control area, SW-Motech GPS mount with hardwired Garmin Zumo 660, Touratech Sport Tour Stainless Pegs, Fuze Block wiring.

Offline Ramseybella

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Re: No idle and high idle problem
« Reply #250 on: April 28, 2018, 11:32:37 am »
Well the riders that had the main harness replaced have not had this issue again, i am guessing.  ???
I did start a head count post on who had it done and if they still are going strong..
 Crickets and the sound of wind is all i got.
I had all the symptoms you have had and the problem is gone.
It dances 1100 down to 900 rpm from time to time but no more major traumatic issues since.
"Technology applied for the sake of those who wish to escape it"

Offline JoshMundy

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Re: No idle and high idle problem
« Reply #251 on: May 01, 2018, 07:08:11 pm »
Well the riders that had the main harness replaced have not had this issue again, i am guessing.  ???
I did start a head count post on who had it done and if they still are going strong..
 Crickets and the sound of wind is all i got.
I had all the symptoms you have had and the problem is gone.
It dances 1100 down to 900 rpm from time to time but no more major traumatic issues since.

Ya, i need to get it to the shop to see if they will do the wiring harness.  Havent had time to take the trip to take it to the shop, damn life getting in the way
2013 Super Tenere - Wasp graphics,Yamaha skid plate, Yosh RS4 carbon/SS exhaust with Carbon Fiber heat shield, Seat Concepts Seat, GIVI crash bars,Cyclops LED headlight, Rigid LED Light Bar, Galfer Stainless Brake/Clutch lines, Heated grips with electronic 3-way control, ProTaper Raptor Bars, Custom dash buttons to left control area, SW-Motech GPS mount with hardwired Garmin Zumo 660, Touratech Sport Tour Stainless Pegs, Fuze Block wiring.

Offline 2daMax

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Re: No idle and high idle problem
« Reply #252 on: May 02, 2018, 12:58:17 am »
Was in another thread that Yamaha could not find the fault with the returned faulty wire harness.  Seems like a continuity test if they are checking the cables (and found to be good but problem is still there)....so that leads me to think, it could be just poor connections at the interconnect.  Oxidation, dirt could cause intermittent connectivity issues, while deformed metal connections could act up depending on temperature.

One quick way to remedy is to find all the joints and use Contact Cleaner, and inspect the 'female' pins for good spring back-ability.  Removal and reseating at all connectors should also improve the connections.

Case in point was a fella who recently down his bike in a river crossing.  (yeap, bike spa)  All was good for a month or so until one day both his headlamps went dead.  Bulbs are fine, fuse is fine.  Traced it to the connectors, they were burnt marks all over it (located at the top right side cowl, not the connectors to the H7 bulbs).  While the pins where physically in contact with each other, the oxidation formed at the contact area became resistive in nature and the current went over the next shortest less resistive path, and at some point causes the arching that leads to the high temperature observation (melted and carbon marks).

What I am saying is, exposure to the elements can cause the interconnects to corrode or oxidize and that introduces more resistance to the circuits.  More resistance means the sensors are showing lower than ordinary voltages intermittently and that makes the ECU goes mad.

Now this learning makes me wanna apply Contact Cleaner + Protection spray all over the interconnects to prevent moisture from getting on the them.
Current: 2012 Super Tenere - White/Red Speedblocks
Previous:
2011 to 2015 - Kawasaki Versys 650 2011
2010 to 2011 - Kawasaki Ninja 250R 2008

Offline Ramseybella

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Re: No idle and high idle problem
« Reply #253 on: May 07, 2018, 11:00:59 am »
2daMax::: I can concur that, nothing as the tech told me was found. But these guys are serious on finding the issue before issuing recalls on main harness replacement.
No doubt that they ran a current test through all the leads and pulled apart everything to the pins with their investigation.
So as you could be right on what you stated, this is another Gremlin caused by design like wiring in old Triumphs (The Ghost of Sir Lucas).
 I was always asking questions during his stay based on input from us forum members and videos.
I asked a few, any loose contact points, and burnt looking or loose connectors with dirt or dust debris that they found?
 Also talked about wires from the Stator crossing over harness wires that could cause interference.
They found nothing wrong.
They are just as baffled why it is the 2012 and 13 that has this issue mainly, i joked maybe a tsunami thing!! HE wasn't amused.  :-\
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 11:04:44 am by Ramseybella »
"Technology applied for the sake of those who wish to escape it"

Offline 2daMax

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Re: No idle and high idle problem
« Reply #254 on: May 07, 2018, 10:37:12 pm »
They would need the entire bike to be sent in for trouble shooting the harness.  Harness itself won't show anything if it is a interconnect issue.  The trouble with low powered sensors is that they won't melt connectors and won't show any signs of physical electrical contact issues, due to the low current flow.  Probably a reseating the connectors would likely solve this kind of contact issues.

Blue Screen of Death were mostly attributed to MS-Windows at one point of time but some of it is attributed to the DRAM contacts.  Reseating the DRAM often cures these issues. 
Current: 2012 Super Tenere - White/Red Speedblocks
Previous:
2011 to 2015 - Kawasaki Versys 650 2011
2010 to 2011 - Kawasaki Ninja 250R 2008

 

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