Author Topic: HARD START  (Read 143435 times)

Offline snakebitten

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Re: HARD START
« Reply #765 on: April 08, 2017, 12:24:57 pm »
Hey Tomato! It was your story, back when it was real-time, that influenced my decision to use the additive. (so thanks)
I can't prove it has saved me from impending doom. But I can report that the last valve adjustment revealed gorgeously clean visuals of places where others showed carbon deposits. Even the tech was impressed. He, knowing the entire history of my Tenere adventures, claims my Tenere is solid proof to him just how good Yamaha did on this "unknown" motorcycle.
XT1200Z  TBDBITW  (The Biggest Dirt Bike in The World)
KTM 500 EXC              Dirtiest Street Bike In The World
KTM 950 SE           (The Substitute for the XT700Z that's coming)

Offline Bigbore4

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Re: HARD START
« Reply #766 on: April 08, 2017, 01:25:51 pm »
I've never had a problem with this beyond minor annoyance.  Likely because I am old.  When I was young all my vehicles had carburetors with primitive automatic chokes, no emissions, and weak breaker point ignitions.  They flooded ROUTINELY.  We just knew how to deal with it.

When mine has died, I just don't keep trying, I immediately roll the throttle WFO while continuing to crank and it fires up after a few seconds more of cranking.

I have not had too many problems after shop time, multiple key on and key off do not seem to trigger mine.  Cold and wet will.  Especially if I resort to my old carby habits and blip the throttle as I let in the clutch.  It really does not like that, especially when cold and wet.

Checkswrecks, thanks for the updates.
Dave
IBA# 45134

2012 Raven XT1200Z on the way, er XTZ12B picked up 7-29-11
2005 FJR
SRX6

Offline Kevhunts

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Re: HARD START
« Reply #767 on: April 09, 2017, 02:21:49 pm »
Excellent post Markjenn.

And I'm inclined to agree.

 ::026::
Seems most logical.

I never had the hard starting problem.
I always let the "ignition on" sequence play out before hitting the start button and once started, never shut the engine off until the cooling fan cycled or I reached my destination.

I did have my ECU flashed early on and thought perhaps that helped keep me out of trouble but now I doubt it.

When my battery turned 2 years old, I started to lose confidence in it and after reading several hard starting posts, decided to put the highest CCA battery I could fit in it's place and I never looked back.
The act of riding is a form of meditation, because the concentration that's required to safely ride a motorcycle tends to focus the mind in a way that eliminates other mental distractions that might interfere with the mission.

Offline rickster60

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Re: HARD START
« Reply #768 on: May 27, 2017, 03:59:47 pm »
 ::015::Just pulled #4 fuse as described in the very first post of this Hard Start thread..held the throttle wide open and after a day of tinkering to find the problem it started right up..so happy

Offline Tenman

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Re: HARD START
« Reply #769 on: June 24, 2017, 02:26:24 am »
I carry a quikstart jumper under my rear pillion. Fits like it was made for it. It has got me out of serious trouble several times. Some of those dead starts were from me killing it with the sidestand and forgetting to turn the key off. Chaps my ass evertime. I ride alone in some places that has no fone service and walking out is a scarey thought.
current--2004 zrx1200 (red)- 96 cr500 (white)-2013 xtz1200 (white)-1984 rz350 (red white blue)

Offline Don in Lodi

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Re: HARD START
« Reply #770 on: June 25, 2017, 01:51:16 pm »
I carry a quikstart jumper under my rear pillion. Fits like it was made for it. It has got me out of serious trouble several times. Some of those dead starts were from me killing it with the sidestand and forgetting to turn the key off. Chaps my ass every time. I ride alone in some places that has no fone service and walking out is a scarey thought.


Been thinking about bypassing that damn switch. >:(
Don in Lodi
2012 Tenere
1997 Royal Star
1984 CB900
1986 XL600
1981 XL185
1969 CT90

"ride what you want, want what you ride"

Offline 2daMax

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Re: HARD START
« Reply #771 on: June 28, 2017, 11:12:08 am »
This is my 1st time having a new battery installed. Old battery was dated 2011 n kept in storage with the bike at the dealer until 2015. I started using it n after about 1.5 years I noticed cold starts sometimes takes 3 to 5 secs to start with me holding on the start button. If I made a short trip like a 10 mins ride the start up is also equally long. I kept holding on to the button to avoid a hard start issue.

Ok new ytz14s equivalent battery installed. Start up in cold is less than a sec. I live in a tropical country. I can imagine it harder to start or fail to start if the temps are cold. And I believe one of the hard starting issues is due to weak battery.

For the record, old yuasa ytz12s was reading 12.3V before it was removed. New battery was 12.97V when installed. After a ride of 30 mins it goes up to 13.3V. after riding n letting it sit for 12 hrs, 13.1V.  Old Yuasa after 1 hour on the charger reads 12.44V after a day.

Current: 2012 Super Tenere - White/Red Speedblocks
Previous:
2011 to 2015 - Kawasaki Versys 650 2011
2010 to 2011 - Kawasaki Ninja 250R 2008

Offline Koinz

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Re: HARD START
« Reply #772 on: June 29, 2017, 12:16:13 pm »
This is my 1st time having a new battery installed. Old battery was dated 2011 n kept in storage with the bike at the dealer until 2015. I started using it n after about 1.5 years I noticed cold starts sometimes takes 3 to 5 secs to start with me holding on the start button. If I made a short trip like a 10 mins ride the start up is also equally long. I kept holding on to the button to avoid a hard start issue.

Ok new ytz14s equivalent battery installed. Start up in cold is less than a sec. I live in a tropical country. I can imagine it harder to start or fail to start if the temps are cold. And I believe one of the hard starting issues is due to weak battery.

For the record, old yuasa ytz12s was reading 12.3V before it was removed. New battery was 12.97V when installed. After a ride of 30 mins it goes up to 13.3V. after riding n letting it sit for 12 hrs, 13.1V.  Old Yuasa after 1 hour on the charger reads 12.44V after a day.

Will all do respect, static battery voltage while sitting doesn't really tell you anything (unless you have a shorted cell). It should read at least 12 volts and most times a little more. There are 6 cells developing ~2 volts each.
The way you test a battery is under load. Get a battery load testing tool or Crank the engine for a specific amount of time, 10 seconds and read the voltage while cranking. Voltage should not go below 10.2 volts.  You don't want to keep doing this as it could overheat the starter.
2012 Raven Super Tenere
1985 Yamaha XT 600
1987 KLR 650

Offline 2daMax

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Re: HARD START
« Reply #773 on: June 29, 2017, 09:37:35 pm »
Thanks for the inputs.  I know that the load testing is the real test for a battery's health.  It can determine the CCA.  I do not have one or have access to one.  Voltage at static as you called it tells me one thing, the per cell storage condition, not sure of the right word used here but it gives an idea of the condition of the battery to store the charges due to long term suffocation effects.

Just heard from a buddy that by using 2X 22000uF capacitors placed in parallel to the battery, and load tested, the CCA went up from 230A to 300A.  This is what I am going to do.

 
Current: 2012 Super Tenere - White/Red Speedblocks
Previous:
2011 to 2015 - Kawasaki Versys 650 2011
2010 to 2011 - Kawasaki Ninja 250R 2008

Offline tpak

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Re: HARD START
« Reply #774 on: July 01, 2017, 12:12:28 am »
Sorry, what you are reporting might be a battery issue but it is not even remotely what those of us that have had a 'hard start' experience. I know good and well what a weak battery sounds like and is. When my bike has a 'hard start' it refuses to start. Period. I can run the battery from full charge to no charge and nothing. Nada. Zero. Zip. I know damn good and well how to do the WOT procedure. Nada. Zero. Zip. So does everyone else. That crap does not work when this bike decides it is not going to start. There are those on this board and thread that do not believe in this phenomenon. Fine, lucky them. I've had it multiple times. Sometimes out of the blue, sometimes multiple times in a row. The only thing that fixes this for my bike is pulling the FI fuse and blowing what appears to be a flood condition out and then putting the FI fuese back in. Hard start my ass, it is a flaw somewhere in the FI programming that floods this bike. Hard start is BS, its NO START.

Not ragging on you but a wimpy battery is NOT what this thread is about. Take discussions about how to measure battery performance to a different thread.


Thanks for the inputs.  I know that the load testing is the real test for a battery's health.  It can determine the CCA.  I do not have one or have access to one.  Voltage at static as you called it tells me one thing, the per cell storage condition, not sure of the right word used here but it gives an idea of the condition of the battery to store the charges due to long term suffocation effects.

Just heard from a buddy that by using 2X 22000uF capacitors placed in parallel to the battery, and load tested, the CCA went up from 230A to 300A.  This is what I am going to do.

Offline Checkswrecks

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Re: HARD START
« Reply #775 on: July 01, 2017, 05:28:00 pm »
Sorry, what you are reporting might be a battery issue but it is not even remotely what those of us that have had a 'hard start' experience. I know good and well what a weak battery sounds like and is. When my bike has a 'hard start' it refuses to start. Period. I can run the battery from full charge to no charge and nothing. Nada. Zero. Zip. I know damn good and well how to do the WOT procedure. Nada. Zero. Zip. So does everyone else. That crap does not work when this bike decides it is not going to start. There are those on this board and thread that do not believe in this phenomenon. Fine, lucky them. I've had it multiple times. Sometimes out of the blue, sometimes multiple times in a row. The only thing that fixes this for my bike is pulling the FI fuse and blowing what appears to be a flood condition out and then putting the FI fuese back in. Hard start my ass, it is a flaw somewhere in the FI programming that floods this bike. Hard start is BS, its NO START.

Not ragging on you but a wimpy battery is NOT what this thread is about. Take discussions about how to measure battery performance to a different thread.


A weak battery can push a regularly OK bike into the hard start group, but you're right. There's a group of Gen1 bikes which clearly has a hard start issue of their own. Beyond what we learned from Yamaha a couple months ago, nobody has ever really figured out what those bikes root issue was.
Damascus, MD
XTZ1200, KTM 690R

Offline Donk

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Re: HARD START
« Reply #776 on: July 02, 2017, 06:31:08 pm »
FWIW;  Picked up my new '17 and it turns over faster and stronger than my "14 ever did.  Is it possible Yamaha did something without saying like a bigger starter cable? 

Offline tpak

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Re: HARD START
« Reply #777 on: July 03, 2017, 12:46:43 pm »

A weak battery can push a regularly OK bike into the hard start group, but you're right. There's a group of Gen1 bikes which clearly has a hard start issue of their own. Beyond what we learned from Yamaha a couple months ago, nobody has ever really figured out what those bikes root issue was.

Checks, must have missed it, what did we learn from Yamaha recently?

Edit - nevermind, found it a few pages back, missed it the first time. Interesting info. All I know is when it happens to me I don't bother with WOT procedures because they don't work for me, I just proceed to pull the FI fuse, crank until she feels like she is trying to catch, put the fuse back in and cover back on, start up and ride away. Works every time. I personally can not correlate the occurrences of this too short rides/engine runs but as it seems to vary for us Gen1 owners that is no surprise. I do occasionally use Seafoam but don't track it so can not correlate that either. Maybe I'll be more regular about doing so.

Meanwhile:

 ::021::
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 12:56:43 pm by tpak »

Online Cycledude

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Re: HARD START
« Reply #778 on: August 12, 2017, 04:44:00 pm »
Well in 30,000 miles I've experienced the no start issue twice, first time was last summer, second time was today, just like the first time it cranked and fired once like it was going to start but didn't start, after about an hour of messing with it it finally started and has run fine since, it still has the original battery so maybe tomorrow I will load test it and if it needs a new battery it will definitely be a battery that has more cranking power than the original battery has ever had.
2013 Tenere heading for Alaska about May 25th 2016
2002 Honda GL1800, yellow, currently 465,000 smiles

Online Cycledude

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Re: HARD START
« Reply #779 on: August 19, 2017, 12:46:01 am »
I have a cheap load tester and with that the stock battery tested fine so I thought maybe I should take it to my dealer and have them load test it, they tested it with two different and expensive looking testers and got the same results as my cheap load tester so I guess my 13 battery is still fine.

When Looking at Amazon for a battery it says the Yuasa YTZ 14S does not fit the Tenere , apparently that's incorrect information ?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 01:40:32 am by Cycledude »
2013 Tenere heading for Alaska about May 25th 2016
2002 Honda GL1800, yellow, currently 465,000 smiles

 

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